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The Helldragon
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So I've been playing for a bit and though I know this game's still in beta, here's what I think.

-The CP system looks like it replaces chip codes, and bigger chips take more CP to play. But it feels like I've got too much CP and can pretty much spam a full spread of chips each round. Maybe this can be reduced to a "chip slot" method, where maybe a Cannon costs one point, TankCannon costs 3, and Bass version whatever is 5, as an example. Then again, I don't know what's wrong with chip codes to begin with that needed replacing.

-There's no minigames in place to guard attacks, which I assume is a feature that wasn't put in yet to meet the April 1st deadline.

-The minigames for attacks feel too easy overall.

-Since there's no grid, stuff like WideSword is useless, and Swords are infinitely better than Cannons. Instead of a grid, maybe enemies could switch "ranges", and some chips only work on some ranges. Stuff like WideSword could hit all ranges, but have less damage to boot.

-I feel like I've got too much SP for my Navi, but again, number tweaking should fix that.

-For the moment, a simple function to explore the Internet would be cool. Make it like a dungeon crawl mode: as you go deeper, you can randomly unlock Zenny and chips, but have to fight battles, and you can't heal unless you jack out of the dungeon. Otherwise, grinding Zenny's going to take time.

-How about the ability to "jack in" at different locations on the board? Go to certain sections and "jack in" to see if you find a random prize for the day. The system sets it for that day on a random basis, and it's available to anyone, but you only get one.

I'm sure more will come up, but this is what I've got at the moment.

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One other thing to add - for the defense minigames, I feel timing should be stressed above all, like tapping a direction at the right time to dodge an attack, or a button right when an attack hits to block it. The weapons with different ranges could limit which direction you need to press, like WideSword making it so you get hit if you tap up or down. Having some simple graphics here would help illustrate where the attack hits just as it's coming in so you can dodge appropriately.

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I must say, this does seem very nice as a board feature.

By this point, the board's probably one of the most customized and unique out there.

Edited by Daveris on April 2, 2013 at 0:12:23

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Okay, still throwing out more ideas:

* Defense minigames should be one after the other, immediately, no waiting. Especially ideal in versus battles, where you can stack chips with different forms of defense to really keep the opponent on their toes. They also need to be fast to encourage skill.

* Speaking of chip stacking, perhaps you can have the option to junk chips on your turn to help recover your Chip Points next turn. You can regen CP naturally, but junking helps you get it back faster. It also discourages constant huge combos, and could be a form of risk/reward.

* And another question: this may be a bug or not, but it seems I can't get charge shots to work.

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For charge shots, you basically have to select it and do nothing until it finishes charging, which normally takes around 4 turns and only does 10 damage, making it largely worthless.


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I never really get any indicators that it's finished charging.

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Once it's done charging, the designation for it turns into "Charged shot!"

I tested it when fighting a GenericModel1.EXE, since those things do crap damage.


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Somehow, with no sound effects, almost no animation, and some very strange battle systems...this is really quite entertaining. :D Although, it might help that I chose an animated gif of Juno as my battle image. :P But yeah, very fun.

I've had a hard time getting the hang of how the chips work and whatnot, but I'm starting to understand a little better now.


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Sorry for the double post, but I just lost a battle that never started. -_- WindRider challenged me, I accepted...nobody showed up. It kept saying it was waiting for him to join. Well, after a few minutes I decided to click Who's Online to see if he was still here. I could not view the page because I had a "battle waiting for me". I tried going to a few other pages on IO. I came back to the battle, still no WindRider, and now I had 30HP. I checked Who's Online once more, but this time it allow it. Why? Because leaving the battle page killed me and made me lose by default. This is a problem.

We need to be allowed to go to other pages while in a battle without being murdered.



~Juno~


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Yeah, that was weird. And I think a huge priority should be chip code integration. What I noticed in a couple PVPs with Juno was that whoever went first won, because they could just select all their chips. Integrating chip codes would put a limit on how easily you can just decimate your opponent because you happened to move first.


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If you want a challenge, go challenge the Doc. :k


"Why do you care that I care that you care enough to care that I care for caring?" "Conversation isn't your strong point, is it?"
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Quote from post #231813:
Originally posted by WindRider739
Yeah, that was weird. And I think a huge priority should be chip code integration. What I noticed in a couple PVPs with Juno was that whoever went first won, because they could just select all their chips. Integrating chip codes would put a limit on how easily you can just decimate your opponent because you happened to move first.


Yeah. As much of a pain as those things can be in the real BN series, it would be better for PVP matches.
Maybe we could come up with some sort of dodging system as well? Maybe something similar to the way you use chips like Barrier & Heal? Cause, as cool as this thing is, it's a little frustrating when you're feeling a bit confident, move to the next tier, and die before your 1st turn because you just get pounded on instantly and can't do a thing about it.

Side note: I can't figure out how to use "BubbleStar1". Can someone explain how that thing works? @_@



~Juno~


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I pretty much agree with everything that's been said so far. A few things I thought of while messing around with stuff:

  • Upgrade Center should show how much Zenny you have
  • How do you set Regular Chips?
  • It doesn't show how much memory a certain chip takes up


Also, I know you're going for the authentic Battle Network feel here, but I don't think it would kill you to have the chip descriptions be bit more helpful. I was trying to figure out whether WideSword actually did anything different than Sword and all I had to go off of was "USE SWORD ATTACK". There was a legitimate technical limitation that merited this in the GBA games. Not the case here.

Anyway, it's an interesting concept you have here. I'm interested to see where it will go.

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Quote from post #231812:
Originally posted by Juno
WindRider challenged me, I accepted...nobody showed up. It kept saying it was waiting for him to join. Well, after a few minutes I decided to click Who's Online to see if he was still here. I could not view the page because I had a "battle waiting for me". I tried going to a few other pages on IO. I came back to the battle, still no WindRider, and now I had 30HP. I checked Who's Online once more, but this time it allow it. Why?


I'm not sure what happened there, honestly. Browsing during a battle definitely has to be enabled in some way (if only, as you say, to see who's online). There's a basic block at this point to make sure that a player can't try to enter two battles at once, which would break a lot of things. I'll have to come up with a clever redesign.


Quote from post #231815:
Originally posted by Juno
As much of a pain as those things can be in the real BN series, it would be better for PVP matches.
Maybe we could come up with some sort of dodging system as well?


I wonder if chip codes are really necessary if we have a way to dodge attacks, such as defensive minigames. Once that's in place, selecting a whole bunch of chips at once won't mean a crushing victory: a swift opponent can avoid many of the blows. Besdes, as you progress in battle, you need to manage your CP usage: you can't pick all the chips available as you'll run out of points.


Quote:
Side note: I can't figure out how to use "BubbleStar1". Can someone explain how that thing works? @_@


That's a button series type event. You've got a grid of nine buttons. A countdown will appear on a random button, which you need to click before it reaches 0. Repeat that a few times (4 in the case of BubbleStar1) to complete the attack.


Quote from post #231817:
Originally posted by Sensei-Hanzo
  • Upgrade Center should show how much Zenny you have
  • It doesn't show how much memory a certain chip takes up


That came up late in our pre-launch testing as a glaring omission, and is close to the top of my list of things to improve.


Quote:
How do you set Regular Chips?


When viewing a folder, click on the 'R' at the left on the chip you want, assuming you've got enough regular memory of course! :)


Quote:
... but I don't think it would kill you to have the chip descriptions be bit more helpful.


Point taken. I wrote most of the descriptions as an afterthought hoping to make it in time for the launch. The lack of range management for attacks means that Sword, WideSword and LongSword act the exact same for now. That shouldn't be the case, of course...

Also, it's nice to see a new face giving this a spin. Welcome around. :) Once we've got most of the initial concerns taken care off, we'll be able to spread the word on this to bring in new players!


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I've had a few instances of battles freezing up during combat, usually after succeeding using a chip. I'd refresh, but it'd put me into a new battle. Sometimes I could complete that, and once done, I'd be forced back into the previous battle. I've otherwise figured out just leaving to a different part of the forum and reentering the battle via the inevitable redirect.

I would suggest enabling the use of PMs during battle in case something goes wrong, though. When it first froze up on me, my first instinct was to PM you, Doc, but couldn't--it just redirected me to the fight.


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Battles shouldn't freeze up like that, but then, it's hard to predict all possible outcomes. Are you seeing any errors displayed on the screen when that happens? If you do, please give them over to me, those can provide valuable clues. The rest of the behavior that you describe is what I expect to happen with the current code base.

It's obvious that the "battle is awaiting you!" check is too strict and will need some improvements. For now, as a quick fix, I've allowed access to Who's Online and the PM system, even during a battle.


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When it freezes up? No, no errors pop up for me. My guess is that it's just the connection timing out--on another forum I frequent, it's fairly often I'd click a link, then have to hit stop and refresh before it'd load. I think the same thing is happening here during battles.


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My order of suggested changes:

1. Defensive minigames. Arrow keys to avoid, mainly for different ranges, and some attacks getting REACT!! dodging. This is the one thing the game needs the most right now. For tweaking down the line, tougher enemies clearly have more mixed defensive minigames or faster reaction times needed. Maybe guys like Bass can stack two or three in a row with one attack.

For PVP, the defensive minigames are the only minigame players play.

2. The CP system, either with chip codes, preferably, or a more refined CP cost system. Also, the ability to know how much CP a chip costs, and ways to recharge it more quickly.

3. Some kind of chip shop.

4. Ranges for enemies to be in, so only certain chips target certain ranges. I suggest Close, Medium, and Far. Sword only hits Close, for example, and WideSword hits all.

5. A better buster with faster charge time or more uses per turn.

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Perhaps we should make an official suggestions thread at this rate.


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Quote from post #231833:
Originally posted by The Helldragon
For PVP, the defensive minigames are the only minigame players play.


Defensive only? Why? I don't see the point.


Quote from post #231834:
Originally posted by RisingDragon
Perhaps we should make an official suggestions thread at this rate.


Good idea. I suggest a suggestions topic. Granted, some concepts might deserve their own topic, especially at the rate at which Hell is talking about defensive minigames!

Edited by Dr. Cossack on April 2, 2013 at 22:40:56


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Quote from post #231838:
Originally posted by Dr. Cossack
Quote from post #231833:
Originally posted by The Helldragon
For PVP, the defensive minigames are the only minigame players play.


Defensive only? Why? I don't see the point.


Against viruses, you have to do the attack minigame to see if you hit to begin with. It'd be redundant if you do an attack minigame and the opponent does a defense minigame to see if you hit.

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Quote from post #231839:
Originally posted by The Helldragon
Against viruses, you have to do the attack minigame to see if you hit to begin with. It'd be redundant if you do an attack minigame and the opponent does a defense minigame to see if you hit.


It's not redundent: the attacker can fail his attack, leaving the defender with no need to try and block a non-existing attack. I don't see why we'd move the responsability of a chip's success only on the defending players.


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Part of me feels that the NetNavi enemy's turns can get a little unfair. ._. Srsly, ProtoMan, four Wide Swords in a row?

I'd make a remark about Bass, but he's supposed to be horribly unbalanced. :k


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Quote from post #231820:
Originally posted by Dr. Cossack
Also, it's nice to see a new face giving this a spin. Welcome around. :) Once we've got most of the initial concerns taken care off, we'll be able to spread the word on this to bring in new players!

I used to run an MMBN forum RPG with the Helldragon back in the day (he was the one who pointed me in this direction), so the concept of a new BN forum RPG intrigued me. =P Didn't realize communities like this still existed.

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Welcome aboard, Hanzo. Yeah, these things are few and far between. With the advent of social networks like Myspace, forums started to die out. Now with Facebook in full swing, there aren't many places like this still out there. I have faith in this place to stay afloat and not become one of those weird message boards that hasn't had a visitor in years, though. Doc's implementing new features all the time, and with the addition of a Minecraft server, I think we've been thoroughly grounded into the internet. Considering I found a years old topic on the first couple pages of a google search on how to make rock candy (seriously wtf) I think it's safe to say we'll be here for a while.

Also. I support defensive minigames, for the same reason I support chip codes.

EDIT - I think another good modification would be to separate PVP and Virus battle records. More for bragging rights than anything. My W/L can be 500/3 but it isnt' as impressive if you find out 400 of those were from level 1 fights.

Edited by WindRider739 on April 3, 2013 at 14:47:51


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Quote from post #231856:
Originally posted by WindRider739
I have faith in this place to stay afloat and not become one of those weird message boards that hasn't had a visitor in years, though.


Thanks for the positive thoughts, doing this often feels like an uphill battle in this day and age. :)


Quote from post #231856:

I think another good modification would be to separate PVP and Virus battle records. More for bragging rights than anything. My W/L can be 500/3 but it isnt' as impressive if you find out 400 of those were from level 1 fights.


The records tracker already saves all the appropriate information, I simply haven't gotten around yet to make a fancy little display! I made sure that all the statistics would be stored properly from day one.


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RisingDragon
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I'm guilty of a high battle count from a repeated encounter. :k Farming is inevitable with everything so high priced, though, which made it necessary, and even then I can't really farm money that well when I can only consistently get 400-450 zenny a shot.

Edited by RisingDragon on April 3, 2013 at 13:47:42


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Sensei-Hanzo
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I would like to request that the average time for the React minigame be reduced. I've timed it and it sometimes takes over 10 seconds, which is unacceptable imo. If you're using several React chips in a row, it's just a drag. =(

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Quote from post #231897:
Originally posted by Sensei-Hanzo
I would like to request that the average time for the React minigame be reduced. I've timed it and it sometimes takes over 10 seconds, which is unacceptable imo. If you're using several React chips in a row, it's just a drag. =(


That sounds like a valid issue: waiting that long for a single chip works, but if you're got 3-4 lined up in a row, it becomes somewhat boring. I'll lower the boundary in the next game update.


The admin formerly known as Dr. Cossack.

I post musings, images and nonsense on Tumblr! I play games on Steam! Add me on either/both, and don't hesitate to ask if you want to play something with me!

"There are only three things certain in life: Death, taxes, and Teej's obsessions." ~ RisingDragon (still true in 2019!)

ADeadlyFish
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I am a little late to the party, and am still unsure what's going on. I've played very little of the battle chip Megaman games, so all of this is new to me. I was freaking out during my first battle because I had no idea what to do. I managed to figure things out in time to make a turn-around and beat those annoying cannon things.

I'm having fun with it, though! I'm not too sure on what is supposed to be in the game or what makes what happen, but in one battle, my turn was cut short before I had a chance to use one of my chips.

Also, I'm still confused about the whole Upgrade Center business. I have no idea what some of those things do or what they're for. :(

Edited by ADeadlyFish on August 19, 2013 at 22:20:16


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