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Topic: Ban appeal and other issues

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Snippyaw
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Posted on June 3, 2016 at 7:09:02 [Post link]

This is a long one, it took alot of time and dedication, and honestly I questioned if I should even try considering the circumstance. Regardless I can only hope that this topic shouldn't be approached as "how can we prove he isnt getting unbanned" or whatever have you.

Its awfully long, and honestly its partly my fault by my near inability to speak concisely, but I can only ask that you give it a listen.

See the video

Exodio
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Posted on June 3, 2016 at 16:10:00 [Post link]

Let me preface this by saying I am not staff, in any way shape or form. I'm just a player who's been around for about 3 years. And I still consider myself one of the newbies to the server - a lot of the people have been around for 5-10 years or more as a group of friends through interordi.

I wasn't around for any of this, I read the posts on the topic and I listened to your video. I'd like the point this out which might help explain why everything went down how it did.

1. The initial ban was overkill, which was acknowledged by MasterLink and lifted.

2. A mature, reasoning group of friends is welcomed and assimilated to the Lab. It's happened before and it will happen again.

3. A group of friends that lacks the ability to merge with the culture at the Lab will end up banned. It's happened before and it will happen again.

4. Individuals that are part of a group that does not mesh with the Lab are not immediately dismissed, unless they show any tendency towards discord.

5. At the end of the day, the Lab is about happy people building happily together. There is a very low threshold for drama here. Once an individual has shown that they attract or create drama, it's like a ticking clock. Sometimes they end up safely assimilated and a happy, productive member of our society, but the odds are very much against.

This has nothing to do with a judgement against any of the individuals as people. It has to do with a judgement against their ability to join in a society that works very well and very smoothly. Any airing of drama will pretty much end in a ban.

If your loyalty lies with your friends ahead of the Lab, then most likely you should go and find a server that accommodates your group's behavior and tolerates everyone in the group.

Again, this is all from the perspective of a member only, I am not and will never be staff here. The Lab welcomes people who fit in with the culture. The reason we (as a whole) ban people who bring chaos in almost any measure is because it doesn't take a lot to fracture an online community. Anything that threatens that is dealt with, sometimes harshly (in the eyes of the banned), in order to avoid discord. The vast majority of long term members come on to enjoy themselves and get away from their daily drama. They don't need it here.

Acting in passion in defense of your friends is an admirable quality, but the best course of action is generally to act with a calm head and bring up any issues in private, with the owner of the server. Public displays generally end poorly. And talking publicly about a member of the Lab who has been here since September of 2003 is probably not going to garner you any points in the meantime.

Hope you don't take any of the personally, I'm just trying to lay out the overall terrain of this place. Your analysis of group dynamics and individuals is admirable, but your willingness to display this publicly hurts your case instead of helping it.

Anonymous_SoFar
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Posted on June 3, 2016 at 16:23:58 [Post link]

So I have decided to sit and listen to this ungodly long video for some reason. Writing would have been much better as its would have been short and to the point. But I digress, I have listened.

1. Supermenka's ban was repealed as he was not given a warning by staff, but he did get a warning from another player. (there is a reason why we have many staff players to review)

2. Your "satire" wasn't very satirical, mainly as text does not convey feelings or attitude well. Instead of being calm and collected you chose to be kind of an asshat and "replicated" what Menka did by going "ban me" three times, and then DARED staff to do so, well you got your wish and it was our literal command. (I will personally talk to the other staff to see that you are unbanned since you haven't done wrong except be a bit of a douche)

3. Don't assume every server has protections for every block. Not all servers have protections, since not all servers have worldguard or worldedit and such.

4. Raegal is not an Op so he cannot change the protections of areas. You just need to ask for an Op or wait for an Op to add you to the protection. He just can't change the protections, its not in his ability. Helper and Op is a huge difference, they only get very basic commands to help kick/ban people and such.

5. The Anonymous person's opinion doesn't matter as opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. They also have no impact on the matter at hand. the Trade vs gathering resources, is all dependent on what it is.

6. Your view of Raegal will be taken into consideration and will be review by the other staff. If you have questions please ask me or Mediaklepto, we can help.

TL : DR

shit happened, is being review, Ask me or Media questions personally or DrCossack. We will help bring this useless issue to an end.

- The Senior Op Anonymous_SoFar

Edited by Anonymous_SoFar on June 3, 2016 at 17:24:17

Anonymous_SoFar
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Posted on June 3, 2016 at 20:53:23 [Post link]

I have unbanned you, stated also in the "Wall of Shame"

Do not hesitate to contact me or Mediaklepto (to get me if i'm not on) if you have questions

-Anon

Dragon Man
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Posted on June 3, 2016 at 21:05:10 [Post link]

I'd like to weigh in on this situation, since I'm very much a part of it.

First, however, I'd like to take a minute to make an observation regarding Anon's comments. I have no qualms with your points, it's just the bit at the tail end that bothers me. "The Senior Op"... Really? That's interesting, since, as memory (and empirical evidence) serves, I'm pretty sure UE, if anyone, is the 'Senior Op', since he's been here since September 16, 2002, was one of the earliest IO Super Admins, one of the original IRC Ops, is currently a Creepers Lab Op who is active daily and actually leaves his base on a regular basis, and you've... been registered since 2012, admittedly almost never leave your personal builds, and are on very infrequently... and you're "The Senior Op"?... Really?

Anyway, on to the point. I've gone and listened to the video in it's entirety. Having a proofread script would've saved you (and us) a lot of time, but that's neither here nor there.

Menka's ban was indeed repealed by ML, although I had planned to unban him myself as soon as I got up that morning. You were correct in assuming I was too hasty to ban him and I acknowledge that. A kick would have sufficed. That said, however, when I mentioned I was considering this, you basically spat in my face and raved at me for 20 minutes, egging me on to ban you. As Link put it, poke the lion, get bitten. Ask, and you shall receive. Satirical or not, a level-headed calm approach would've worked a thousand times better. THAT is what got you banned.

First off, the number of players active on the server does not cause rules to shift and bend contextually to who's present. Even if you're literally the only person there, spamming is still in violation of rules. Punishment for violation of rules is left to moderator discretion.

Why did I erroneously ban him? Let's talk about how it looked when he and his group first arrived. Jedenator had broken three panes of glass in Central, (easily replaced, but deliberate destruction nevertheless) proceeded with Menka and one other in tow to Brock's base where they proceeded to start digging underneath his farms, covering their point of entry as they went and jokingly denying it allthewhile despite the fact that I was literally watching them do it. Nobody had informed staff that this group was here as Brock's guests. Nobody had breathed a word that they were just playing a casual prank on their friend, who would in turn laugh it off and go about their business.

Once the matter was cleared up (seconds before that group would have originally been banned for griefing) there was no apology for the confusion whatsoever, and it became a joke among the group how 'uptight' staff is here.

I've been part of this community for going on 13 years. I've seen people like this come and go all throughout. I've also administrated kid's forums, operated multiple IRC chatrooms, and held staff positions more or less anywhere I've sat long enough. I have a pretty good idea how to spot trolls when I see them. I'm not 100% accurate, but show me someone who is, and I'll show you someone who's conveniently forgetting their own mistakes.

On that night, Menka was banned because I'd seen enough. I was tired, I was grouchy, and Menka's spamming pushed me over the edge. You, being his friend, were understandably outraged by this, so I listened to you. I listened to you as you lashed out at me, waiting for you to calm down so I wouldn't have to ban you as well. I even offered to unban Menka the next day because you actually had a good point about not giving him a warning. You then spat in my face and kept going while jekeb hurled insults and made threats. (his is a lost cause, in case you hadn't guessed)

Had you at the very least settled down and discussed it calmly, instead of pretending to do the same actions as someone who literally got banned seconds ago, I would have only banned jakeb because A) Ban dodging is not a thing you should try with us. It never works. and B) We're like the TSA. If you make any kind of threat, no matter how baseless or small, you've crossed the line.

Actions carry consequence. A moment of indiscretion is all it takes. I honestly expect to have my own haste in this matter be reviewed, and seriously doubt I'll get away from it smelling like a rose. So, too, should you accept the consequences of your actions. I do not support you getting immediately unbanned, but would not be opposed to said ban being made temporary.

Those are my feelings on this matter. I leave it at that.

~Edit
Also, opinions don't bug me. You can like whatever you want, provided it doesn't harm anyone. I never ban out of spite or other petty reasons like that. Your opinions were never a part of my considerations, since I have a personal policy of "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Edited by Dragon Man on June 3, 2016 at 16:18:28


Warning: Boggarts in mirror are closer than they appear!

Masterlink
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Posted on June 3, 2016 at 21:57:56 [Post link]

I'm locking this topic since we've reached a resolution.

~Topic Locked~


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