but, Morph, could you still give me that verse so I could look it up or find something similar?

PG, yup, that sure is. Wait a second... *starts searching in closet* where did I left that Sorcerer\'s Stone?

With the verse you mean that part of text in the bible that says something about when the Apocalypse will come? Well, I got my own bible here (for school) but since it\'s in Dutch, I\'ll have to translate it for you, what will be kinda hard with those old texts. Plus, that might not be there in your version of the Bible.

You have to have a copy....for school?

Yes. We do.

Why? Do you have times where you read from it?
(sorry for all this. The notion just seems queer to me)

Well, we have a kind of class named \'Levensbeschouwing\', which could be translated like \'Peoples\' Beliefs\'. In first year (7th grade) we used it quite alot because of our teacher. In second year, we still used it, but not as much (different teacher), same goes for third. This year, fourth (10th grade), we haven\'t used it yet.

We read some parts related to what we learn at that time. Like Genesis, Exodus, and those parts about Jesus...

Oh so it\'s a religious observation class then? Does it only cover Christianity or does it cover various religious beliefs?

All actually. Christianity, Islam, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists... and also Humanists, feminists, communists... erm... replace the latter with \"Marxists\"...

Interesting. I would probably enjoy a class like that. Just too bad America is \"freedom of belief\" but is also pro-ignorance.

Yup. We\'ve also watched some movies in that class, like \"Jesus Christ Superstar\" and the teacher said that, if it hadn\'t been for that shockingness, he would\'ve shown \'The Passion of Christ\" as well. But that would\'ve been too much for some people.

That poll doesn\'t cover nearly enough options. Not only does it only cover two religions (Christianity and Science), but it doesn\'t cover people, such as myself, who believe that the Big Bang created the Earth and our solar system, but God created the Big Bang.

Hmm? I don\'t think so. I mean a big explsion? What did god use to create? His Mouth he spoke to create.

I agree with Samsara. If someone could edit the poll to include the following:
-God
-Big Bang
-Combination of the above
-Something I learned from a game (joke option)
-Other, will clarify in post


And SephirothXX, God had bad gas that day. =P

Wow wind I think you might actually be 100% right about the whole \"spandex universe\". I take it you think that it all just collected over time and then boom no god just hot ka-fu**ing-boom. see my brain is still ruining on DOS so I\'m not programmed to think about forever billion years ago when the largest collection of dust ever known all came together, got hot as all kinds of hell the blew itself up, I know the way the theory works and all but the time it took for all the particles to gather took so long I can\'t totally grasp it. Some people would say “well god created the stuff for the big bang.” and I can kind of understand that thought process, but I don’t believe it at all. I think it just took a forever long time for enough little stuff to make one really BIG massed object. I can’t say that I know where all the stuff came from it just was...always...sort of like I can’t understand infinite because my logical thought tells me it must end sometime...but then I think to myself well what if I go one foot farther, I’ll be past that spot and then what, more....forever. I seem to have almost confused myself, so I’ll move on.

The big bang attack / spandex universe all the way

*Doesn\'t know if I posted here before*

I\'m stuck between my faith and science on this one. It\'s kind of hard to believe God created the world when science has an explaintion for just about everything.

So I\'m stuck between God and The Big Bang theory.

but science does explain everything but the people just dont want to believe it i mean seriously how could there be a \"big bang\" if there was nothing to make a it happen. read the bible it has an explanation for everything scientists have found rocks on top of mountains that are normally found only on the bottom of the sea thus explaining the great flud of noah.the modern day is so corrupt they just dont want to see how stupid they are now adays the only shread that the government has to make the evolution be taght in school is that everybody believes that it is true and honestly scientists are now afraid of what they will find because more and more they are realizing that it would be impossible for something so compound could be made by accident so yes my answer would have to GOD.

There\'s a thing called coincidence. And I must admit that that paragr-well...text block was quite hard to read. Most didn\'t make much sence. Grammer was concived for a reason. Please make use of it.

And why exactly would scientists be afraid of anwsers? That\'s what they do. If they prove that a cosmic deity created everything it wouldn\'t scare them, just anwser a question.

Most scientists are afraid of being wrong though.

Not true as a scientist type person myself, if I found something that proved a god created everything that would put the subject to rest.
As of now however I have nothing like that, in fact what I do see is most everything has an explanation outside of god if you\'re willing to let go of antiquated superstitions set down by people that had no idea how anything on earth happened. People that believed that the earth was the center of EVERYTHING, the universe revolved around us. People that co-existed with people that believed the sun was carried across the sky by a man in a chariot of fire.
And what of the other religions that came WAY before Christianity? Most if not all faded away, just as Christianity would do if people would understand that they are not some chosen race smiled on by a god, the reason people have so much \"faith\" is that want to believe in some way they are special, that after it\'s all said and done they are not just worm food...so they cling to a superstition.
Listen I’m not a Christian basher, but a believer in science. I believe if you can prove it then it’s real, if you have to believe it for the simple fact that if you don’t an all powerful father like figure will punish you forever just doesn’t sit well with me.

But if you have ever read the Bible you\'ll find that science interlocks with the Bible, everything fits perfectly.I really hope you don\'t believe in the big bang therie because it really doesn\'t make any sense, how could something so complex as the universe be created by accident,it really isn\'t possible.Therefore if you know the Bible you will see that the Bible has said things then later scientists have found evidence to prove it.that being said it would be impossible for the Bible to be made up.Do you believe in evolution?If you do why?Is it because thats what you were taught in school, or have you truly found evidence to support it?

That is slightly true as you have seen people just don\'t want to see that they could go to Hell.Recently people just want to live their lives they don\'t want to think what\'s going to happen when they die.An example are country changed B.C.. Do you know what that meant!?It meant Before Christ.And they also changed A.D.Do you know what that meant!?It stood for Ado Domini which in Latin means the year of are Lord.They are afraid.

Their is our proof right there now if I could just use a time machine *hops in cardboard box*

J_Hibiki, I agree with you. I\'m the scientific kind myself, and if there is knowledge, I\'ll see it, and learn from it. Wether it all started by God\'s flatulent problem, or an out-of-hand toyfactory that blew up, I\'d just be happy I found out.

bass9002 (finally got that one right!), it doesn\'t fit perfectly but you\'ll find stuff that links. The flood as well. BTW, something big CAN be created on accident. Think of people of the past, many things we considder normal were invented that way.

Dark Colonel, A.D. means Anno Domini I think, meaning, yes, Anno = Year. Dominus = Lord, Master. I know my Latin.

BD, you can\'t end up before existence, BTW, time didn\'t exist before men. It\'s all in your mind, pal, they are messing with you...

they also hate being wrong...so do I.

I\'m not afraid of going to hell in fact I\'m not afraid of anything after I die, and why is that? Well it\'s because I believe totally that once you die you cease to be, you vanish you are no more, a memory...That\'s all that\'s left, no after life just the absence of existence on your part.

It\'s Christians that are scared, scared that I\'m right, scared that when you die you have no after life. But most if not all Christians think believe that animals don\'t have a soul so they can\'t have an afterlife, because humans are some how \"special\"...how arrogant is that, and what about other races that most defiantly exist on other planets? do you think they don\'t have an after life because god never said anything about them? Hell he created EVERYTHING! So why not mention other races of creatures with capacity for higher thought like humans, could it be that the PEOPLE that wrote the bible that you cling so desperately to didn\'t understand how vast the universe was? could it be that early humans, when I say early I\'m talking the ones that actually knew how the hell to write, had no clue that we were not the center of the universe, that we were in a 99.99~% chance that we are not alone? Yes I totally believe that\'s the case.

Hell just look at it from a non religious point for JUST A MOMENT!

The bible was written by people with little to no understand of the world around them

Possibly hundreds of religions came and went before Christianity was even made up

Hell
A Tool of Oppression

The Church View:
It is represented by the church to mean a place of eternal, fiery torture for those who don\'t believe in the Christ as Savior, and in extreme cases, those who question the authority of the church. This obviously means that the majority of humanity is destined for eternal, fiery torture. Not very fair for a loving and forgiving God, but then the church does not seem to deeply embrace fairness or forgiveness. A vengeful and unforgiving God more suits a pulpit that spews eternal, fiery condemnations for everything from style of dress to political affiliation as a matter of standard practice. Hell also fulfills the strongest motivational force for the church in its arsenal of flock control, fear. There are no statistics on how many people attend church, not out of belief in God, but more out of conditioned fear of a fiery torture. It would be a good bet that if fear of hell were eliminated, church revenues would drastically shrink.

But what is hell? I happen to know...Why? Because I study, a lot...and read the bible a lot also....
The word \"hell\" appears 54 times in the Bible, 30 times in the Old Testament, 24 in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, hell is taken from the word, Sh\'owl, pronounced sheh-ole\' or Sh\'ol; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), Sheol, including its accessories and inmates: KJV--grave, hell, pit. It is interchangeable with the word grave or a pit. Basically, hell is a hole in the ground where bodies are buried. A thorough study of its appearance in Old Testament scripture will show it is not referred to as place of eternal fiery damnation.

In the New Testament it is taken from three words. First, we will examine the one from which the fiery place of eternal torture, so often associated with this word, is taken, Ghenna. It may surprise many to realize that we actually know where this place is, not an ethereal place where Satan dwells, but actually the Jerusalem city dump.
The word is Geena, pronounced gheh\'-en-nah of Hebrew origin; valley of the son of Hinnom; ge-henna, or Ge-Hinnom, a valley of Jerusalem, used figuratively as a name for the place or state of everlasting punishment:
The actual place referred to is Hinnom, a deep, narrow ravine separating Mount Zion from the so-called \"Hill of Evil Counsel\" to the southwest of Jerusalem.

[Edited on 4-11-2005 by J_Hibiki]

I LOVE YOU J_HIBIKI!

Someone who has a simular point as me.

That supports my argument that the afterlife theories are created out of fear and that Christianity is a religion about death. You can\'t be happy unless you are in \"God\'s\" kingdom and you can\'t get there unless you are dead.

To go ahead on clarify on two points:

J Hibiki, you can\'t claim somebody is scared and dodging without attacking them. I believe you earlier said you were not doing so?

Also, while I am a Christian, I must mention that scientists cannot be scared to face the truth because the entire scientific process depends on unbiased observation.

I don\'t get how people look at God creating Hell as an \"unforgiving act.\" We sinned. Satan and the fallen angels were the only ones to do that so far. Really, all of humanity should have been doomed; instead, he offers those who believe, know they have done wrong, and practice his will a chance to escape the torture they deserve.

I agree. We doomed ourselves, now the only way to continue life after death is to believe in Him. If Adam and Eve hadn\'t chowed down on the fruit, we would have had no worries. Jesus died for our sins, making it so we no longer had to sacrifice lambs, and all we had to do is believe. Hell is a type of holding place for people after death. Once we are judged, we will either go to Heaven live happily and peacefully or be cast into the Lake of Fire, where we will burn for all time.

I believe that scientists are the scared ones. They don\'t want to believe, so the desperately try to disprove God. They can\'t, so all they can think to do is say there is no God and tell people we\'re the scared ones.

Jesus didn\'t have to die for us. He could have let just us die.

If I seems like I was attacking, I\'m sorry...I just want to get the point across, the though of death is not a scary one to me, I don\'t believe I\'m going to go to hell or heaven...or anyplace other than a hole in the ground. And Christians do have something to be scared of and that\'s hell...

[quote]Originally posted by PsychoGiga

I agree. We doomed ourselves, now the only way to continue life after death is to believe in Him. If Adam and Eve hadn\'t chowed down on the fruit, we would have had no worries. Jesus died for our sins, making it so we no longer had to sacrifice lambs, and all we had to do is believe. Hell is a type of holding place for people after death. Once we are judged, we will either go to Heaven live happily and peacefully or be cast into the Lake of Fire, where we will burn for all time.

I believe that scientists are the scared ones. They don\'t want to believe, so the desperately try to disprove God. They can\'t, so all they can think to do is say there is no God and tell people we\'re the scared ones.[\\b]

Jesus didn\'t have to die for us. He could have let just us die. [/quote]

To that I can only say don\'t you try just as desperately to \"prove\" he exists to non believers? You tell us to believe you because...you said so....And science does not [b]try to disprove god, it just so happens that the more we learn the more god is disproved....

So I was just thinking...I\'m not a Christian at all, but I act more like one than most Christians I know...how strange is that :heh:

I have some more stuff to talk about, but I\'ll do it in my next post. I don\'t want to make this one too long


Edit:
What do you mean by that!?


[Edited on 5-11-2005 by J_Hibiki]