I wanted to comment on this before you read anything else: I like how you tried to tie in a little ¡K philosophy in here. But, in response, and much like Mega X.exe said ¡K why bother looking forward if you know there isn¡¦t a wall?

You know, it seems to me that this quote just seems to be contrary to your entire argument ¡K since what you¡¦re saying is that religion is merely a fictional wall created by Man to justify itself.

I understand fully that I may not have been completely opinionated ¡K which I tried to enforce. All of what I¡¦ve said today is strictly opinion, and nothing more. I have no problem with your anger, and if you get pissed or mad, or think I¡¦m flaming, trust me, I¡¦m not. I¡¦m merely expressing an opinion within acceptable boundaries. The very fact that I more than tripled the amount of words in your original rant in my return is immaterial. Dammit Wind, if you don¡¦t read every single last bit of this, like I did of yours, you¡¦re really missing out. I did in fact enjoy reading what you had to say, never mind how much I disagree with nearly all of it. You have a wonderful time reading this, and anyone else attempting to combat the sheer ¡K umm ¡K repetitiveness of the Risen Kei can try to reason as well. I think however that Mega X.exe will enjoy reading what I have to say, since he and I are both Christians, and of course, I have a knack of voicing what other people mean to say. So, yeah.

Oh yeah, by the way: Reading through this slop of ¡K well, incorrect grammar by of course, our |337 master is, of course, a challenge in its own right. Let me point out though that proceeding a period is two spaces, and not merely one. In fact, a single space only precedes commas, colons, semi-colons, and ¡K yeah. Actual end punctuation such as Periods and Exclamation points and Question marks have two spaces following them.

If you don¡¦t believe me, at least do me a favor, and type your rant in Word before you actually post. Be sure to use the spell check.


And, quoth my dear friend,





Nice Title there Wind, but in order to indicate that a God is false, first, there has to be an understanding that there can be the concept of a True God, in which, in your title alone, you admit that the Gods of the world are false, but you openly admit (underhandedly though this is) that there is in fact a True God, and that all of the Gods that people ¡¥worship¡¦ or ¡¥pay reverence to¡¦ are inherently false, not correct. Which is again, another way of saying that there is in fact a RIGHT God. And, just to clear this up, that True God is Christ ¡K down and straight.
(Ok, I¡¦m not that narrow-minded, but I felt like slipping into the typical ¡¥ignoramus¡¦ that you seem to attack all the time)

But you see my point, in your title alone, you basically undermine your entire argument by admitting that there is a True God. You need to be more careful when you do these things.



Wind, before I delve any further, let me hit you with an argument that came from the Author I recommended for you to read. Now, tell me: Have you ever been hungry? What am I saying, of course you have. You¡¦ve wanted food, something to quench your need to feed, right? Well, congratulations: there is such a thing called food.

Now, let me get a little less appropriate (but still within the confines of unwary ears): Have you ever had desire? I mean the kind of desire that upstanding people ¡¥don¡¦t like¡¦ to talk about. We all know what I mean. Well, congratulations: There actually IS something we can do to actually satisfy that desire ¡K and it involves the 23rd letter in the alphabet. I¡¦m not actually saying what it is for fear of the stupid blocking programs, but the basic gist is that there actually IS such a thing to fulfill that desire.

Now, riddle me this. Think of all of the religions out there, all of them promising generally the same thing, all of them showing the same indications of history (great flood, a savior ¡K ultimate judgment). Now, before I throw out your little idea of some madman sitting alone in a room and coming up with religions, I ask you this: Isn¡¦t it a bit much of a coincidence that religions separated by continents all have these fundamental principals? Now, I ask you: Why do people ask that above question? Why ask a question if you weren¡¦t looking for an answer? I tell you that I believe that there IS such a thing called God; there actually is a standard of judgment outside of the world and outside of humanity. I tell you that the thirst for the spirit actually does have an answer ¡K it just isn¡¦t in this world. But that¡¦s one of the reasons why we have topics like this, because you can¡¦t find it in this world. Which is why intellectuals ¡K and even the mindless ¡K actually seek a god, because they want to quench that hunger. And I¡¦m talking about people who actually COME to Christianity on their own. Not the mindless ignorant masses that came to Christianity in their youth of 8-12 without actually understanding it. Those aren¡¦t actually Christians, at least in the sense that they don¡¦t actually understand what it is that they are, which they are in fact, not.





This is just ignorant Wind. How can you expect people to reason or debate with you when you express your opinion as so set in stone as that? How can you expect to receive any coherent feedback that doesn¡¦t criticize you when you make such a statement as that? What you did in that sentence is openly proclaim that everything that religious people believe in is simply a lie, and that there actually is no God. And, the irony is that you said ¡§I believe only ¡K¡¨ when you make that harsh statement that is so ¡K set in stone. Honestly.

And, a message from Karayami: Congratulations, you just pissed off 90% of the world!!!

And, you¡¦re right; we live in a Godless society, but not in a society that lacks a God; we live in a Society that doesn¡¦t actually fear God, or believe in God.

As for the actual remaining content, I believe the argument preceding your paragraph should be cause alone for me to not even bother arguing more on this point.




My lazy reply to this is this: You¡¦ll never know for sure. If one way is right, great, if another is right ¡K oh well. But, trying to open people¡¦s minds isn¡¦t wholly necessary, if that kind of life (that is to say, that of a religious one) is happiness for them. If they don¡¦t want to follow God, they don¡¦t have to. If they think they have to, but don¡¦t want to, I wonder what they¡¦re doing trying to follow God in the first place. But, anyway, just because you don¡¦t know if it¡¦s one way doesn¡¦t mean that you know if it¡¦s another. You¡¦ll never know, so that makes this entire topic moot. But, I¡¦ll continue because I believe that I know ¡K which is why you actually started it, because you believe that you know.





First off, let me say that that was a bullsh*t kind of thing to say. Honestly, what makes you the judge of how people spend their time? I think that saying that just makes you sound incredibly narrow-minded. Don¡¦t get me wrong, actually listening to you kind of dispels that kind of thinking, but for future reference, re-read and analyze your own writings before you let someone of harsher temperament do it, otherwise, you¡¦ll hear no end to criticism. But, to further elaborate ¡K saying such a thing puts you in the position of someone who feels he has the right to judge someone. Obviously, you don¡¦t have that right. Just because you may think doing something that may not be real is a waste of time doesn¡¦t mean that the people doing it have the same viewpoint.

In actuality, doing that is real to them, and since Reality is relative to the person understanding it, that should be good enough for anyone. Unfortunately, it isn¡¦t, since everyone seems to think that they¡¦re right, and everyone else that isn¡¦t is simply wrong. When will you people realize that Right and Wrong are indefinite in terms of society, and they will NEVER be accurately defined by any Human Being EVER!!!

Incidentally, many people who actually TURN to God do so in search for perfectly defined values of Right and Wrong. I tell you that the laws that are laid down in the Bible as God¡¦s commands came from no man. Honestly, alone, the laws don¡¦t make much sense when you think about it. They¡¦re not the kind of thing that would come from Men who believe that they are right in their own individual rights. Those laws are set forward for all peoples and are the definition of Fairness in the eyes of an outside party that doesn¡¦t exist in Society or this World.

Do you still think that Man created those laws, those incredibly diverse laws, when Man is continuously on a rampage to be independent of any and all judges? Earlier, you remarked that we live in a Godless society. You¡¦re right, we do. But that¡¦s not because we lack a God. It¡¦s because we don¡¦t believe in God, because God is indicative of judgment, which unfortunately means that if everyone were to be judged by God, without Christ of course ¡K everyone would be judged guilty of committing sooo many sins it¡¦s not even funny.

Don¡¦t get me wrong, in that Covenant (the second, for you Bible Scholars), there actually was a means of absolution from the punishment. Actually offering a sacrifice of guilt to show repentance was possible to absolve you of that sin. The thing was ¡K a new covenant was needed because obviously, that one was flawed. It involves a lot of circumstantial crap, such as the Israelites only offering crappy sacrifices (all animals of course), such as crippled, deformed, or really meager animals. Sooo, they weren¡¦t actually in repentance for their sins, their transgressions against God. Which is why Christ was necessary, so that if people only believed that he existed and died precisely for the absolution of their sins, then people could be saved no matter what transgression they made against God¡¦s law ¡K as long as they believed in their hearts that Christ was the one who paid the price for them. Annnd, I¡¦ll explain more of that later. It¡¦s just very complicated and all of this has taken me about ¡K 2 hours to write. Sue me.

Now I admit, a lot of Christians out there aren¡¦t actually Christian. They¡¦re simply people who are along for a ride. They never understood what they were getting into ¡K and I admit further that mostly they¡¦re Christian specifically because they were ¡¥saved¡¦ (as if) at the ages of ¡K well, pre-middle school. Those are the kind of people that don¡¦t actually fear God, or Love God, because they don¡¦t understand fully God¡¦s love for them. And, as such, they are hopelessly the bane of the Christian doctrine, because while they may have been saved, they don¡¦t actually understand what being saved is ¡K so they can¡¦t possibly tell anyone else to be saved without saying something stupid like ¡§You¡¦re going to hell because you sin so much.¡¨ Honestly, that¡¦s just stupid, and I openly admit it, being a Christian. Yes, I am. Get over it.

Another thing I want to remark is that people don¡¦t follow God because they fear him. Some do ¡K the really religious ones that don¡¦t understand the concept of being saved ¡K but most of them don¡¦t. The people who put themselves under such heavy constrictions do so because they have interpreted God in a different light. It¡¦s not to say they¡¦re worse or anything. And they¡¦re not being forced to follow God or not. That¡¦s a thing you have to remember, God doesn¡¦t force anyone to come Him. As I understand it, God always reaches, and we¡¦re the ones who take His hand.

About the incredibly religious people who ¡K don¡¦t know why they believe? Again, most of them probably got saved at a very young age, not quite knowing fully what God does for them. They most likely don¡¦t know hardship in the same sense as you or I, because they have God as a comforter to them. And I admit as well that God does exactly that. But, God isn¡¦t something that Man created in order to bring that comfort. But, just because they don¡¦t understand why they believe doesn¡¦t quite mean that they don¡¦t believe. It¡¦s kind of like saying that the derivative of Natural Log is always one over X. I¡¦m not quite sure why that is so, but I know it to be an indisputable fact. (In actuality, the derivative of Natural Log is one over X times the derivative of X).




Again, you¡¦re right in this respect. At least, in the sense that they are raised into belief. You still speak under the pretense however that Religious was created specifically as a tool to guide the masses. I tell you that no Man or Group of Men have enough knowledge (no matter the number) or insight of understanding or compromise to actually come up with anything in the Bible ¡K or any other Holy Book. Laws are meant to be fair. You ask me why they are fair, and I ask you what defines Fairness? Does not Fairness indicate Judgment? And, does not Judgment indicate God, or some universal being of judgment?

Umm ¡K ¡K

Where in hell did you get that? I mean ¡K seriously ¡K where did you get that idea? ¡K Remember this though: Light always has to have something that created it. Light exists as both energy and mass. Remember the law of conservation of energy and mass. You can¡¦t have more than you put in, and you can¡¦t put in more than you have. That simple. The light had to come from somewhere.

But, as for God being able to do anything with a Flick of his Wrist ¡K that¡¦s not true. In Islam, Allah is capable of that, I know. But, in Christianity, that isn¡¦t true. God is basically Love. God cannot do anything that He so pleases, mostly, because he doesn¡¦t want to do anything else THAN love. God is a loving God ¡K pretty much. He judges too, but then, as the creator of all things, he would kind of be able to, since they are after all, his creations. But, the thing is, God isn¡¦t capable of doing something he doesn¡¦t want ¡K and he doesn¡¦t want to hate things. Therefore, he cannot hate. God cannot strike you down unless he has a reason ¡K and it¡¦s not up to us to divine the reasons behind his wisdom. You just have to accept (if you want to believe) that that¡¦s what God is. But, God doesn¡¦t protect us from harm. I¡¦ll just lay that one out pure and simple. God blesses us, yes. But God doesn¡¦t ultimately make life on Earth super happy or anything. God simply makes life on Earth bearable. I mean, having Faith in God doesn¡¦t mean that you¡¦ll never trip, never fall, and never feel pain. Because you need perfect Faith for that ¡K and only one man had it, and that was God in human form (Christ). There is the old saying by Jesus, if you had even the smallest amount of Faith, then you could command a mountain to move, and it would. The thing is, even the incredibly devout don¡¦t truly have faith because they either 1) don¡¦t understand their faith, or 2) continuously doubt God, but believe in him anyway. Or a combination of the two.

I tell you now that true Faith, the ultimately belief in God, actually comes from actually understanding what Faith is, and being able to believe without a doubt whatsoever within your mind, body, or soul that God will do what you ask of him. Which he will, because he loves us. But, you have to believe that he will ¡K because if you can¡¦t believe that God will do something ¡K what makes you expect that God will believe that He will do something?

The Eternal Life however ¡K is a different concept. God does promise that. But he doesn¡¦t say follow his will. God says follow Christ, because otherwise, you ain¡¦t getting¡¦ none. Basically, Christ is your ticket to Heaven. Mostly it¡¦s because the world is so sinful that no amount of sacrificing or repentance is EVER going to get us into Heaven. Sooo, Christ decided he would pay the ticked himself. Christ is the begotten Son of God. He wasn¡¦t created ¡K he¡¦s simply a part of God in the Trinity. I would go into that, but if you actually read the Bible ¡K and the numerous religious texts you claim to have read (you¡¦re only ¡K 18 is it? I doubt you¡¦ve actually acquired the knowledge of a Biblical Scholar to actually say anything profound) then you would already know what the Trinity is. I¡¦ll tell you more later if you ask.

But, the Life is promised as a hope for the world. A reason why we should follow the God that loves us. Not because he¡¦ll make life easy for us in this world. No, that¡¦s not really something that matters. Moreover, he promises to restore us to the perfection of our souls, which all of Humanity had before the Fall of Adam.

There, Bible Lesson in a flash.





You¡¦re right ¡K without Laws and a set standard, the world really would degenerate into an unsalvageable pile of waste. But, riddle me this: What puts into our mind the concept of law? What puts into our mind the concept of Fairness, of Judgment, or even the concept of transgressing against your fellow man?

Have you ever heard of Relativism? It¡¦s a concept dictating that all opinions and Truths are relative. Which is basically to say that what is Right is relative to whom you ask. Now, if you were to ask the World what is right, you would receive the most diverse series of opinions ever. Because the World in itself is incapable of determining what is Right. On it¡¦s own.

God is the universal conscience, the standard with which we base ourselves. God is the standard of right, of wrong ¡K God is the standard by which we compare ourselves.

You still act under the pretense that a bunch of ¡K well, philosophers ¡K cynic, whatever ¡K that a bunch of people got together and just decided to CREATE religion as a means to keep the world in line. Since the definition of Religion in a nutshell is a series of beliefs by which people adhere too ¡K religiously of course (huzzah), it¡¦s basically saying that a Religion is a series of standards and beliefs. So basically, what you¡¦re saying is that Man created religion specifically to be a religion. I tell you that circular reasoning like that is why Religions are debated all of the time. Tell me, are you some follower of Stalin or something? He said the same thing, mind you. Religion is NOT Man¡¦s answer to the world and it¡¦s corruption. Because before religion, there was no definition of corruption, because there was nothing to transgress against.

Let me tell you the story of the Fruit of Good and Evil. God forbade the first humans to actually eat from that Tree. That was the first covenant. It basically said this: Follow my one command, and life and eternal happiness are yours, and you can live in bliss in a garden that never runs out, and you¡¦ll never die. Now the major problem with this is that today¡¦s perspective is ¡¥post fruit¡¦ which means that people view this in full knowledge of what Good and Evil and corruption really is. They lived in complete ignorance, sure. But they lived not as if they didn¡¦t know, but as if they didn¡¦t know that there were things to know. They knew only a life of simplicity. Of course, the story goes that the serpent interfered through the use of the delusions that Man could be just like God, knowing Good and Evil. Unfortunately, the serpent forget to mention that they would also know what it would be like to not have life Good ¡K so, it¡¦s a double-edged sword. We know joy, but we know the absence of joy as well.

But, in also the partaking of that fruit, be knew what it was to disobey God as well. We knew what it was to disobey our creator, we knew what it was to disobey the law. And that in turn gave us the knowledge that there is in fact a law ¡K and that it can be followed, or broken. That¡¦s why the world is so sinful however, because while we see the law, we see that it can be broken. Which ¡K is kind of the opposite of the basis of Satanism (and Hollow will correct me if I¡¦m wrong), which is the strict belief that there is no God, there is no Devil, there is no Heaven or Hell, or judgment ¡K so basically do whatever the hell you want and enjoy yourselves. I know it¡¦s more complex than that, but ¡Kyeah.

But back to the original point: Man couldn¡¦t know of the corruption of the world if Man didn¡¦t know corruption existed. Therefore, man couldn¡¦t ¡¥create a failsafe¡¦ against something Man didn¡¦t know existed. It wasn¡¦t until Man learned of that Corruption that God stepped in and showed them how to avoid corruption.




Again, I still disagree that Religion was thought out ¡K that it was just something that people decided to make up to keep the masses in line. Unfortunately, Religion is often used as a tool in order to enforce such ¡K ¡¥keeping in line¡¦ of. But, just because Religion is used as a tool for justification doesn¡¦t mean that Religion was created exactly to justify humanity.

It¡¦s just like the American Legal system. The purposes that lawyers invoke laws for differ vastly from their initial purpose. You can¡¦t help the purposes a tool is put to use for. I¡¦ve heard of people using Shovels to kill. Come on people, shovels are for DIGGING!!!

Just because a tool was created to fulfill a certain purpose doesn¡¦t mean that it cannot fulfill other purposes as well. Granted, I still don¡¦t think that Religion is a tool, but by your own logic, I¡¦m kind of explaining your little rant about how Religion is just a tool used by politicians and other figures to justify their actions.





You know what? I¡¦m getting really tired of having to explain that I still don¡¦t agree with your OPINION ¡K which is still presented as if it¡¦s the only thing that¡¦s right. You¡¦re guilty of that same damned ¡¥Holier-than-thou¡¦ attitude that Hollow loved to brand me with. Again, you have no right to assume that you¡¦re right in this respect. But, also, again: I still don¡¦t agree that Religion was created as a tool. Remember that Religion is simply a series of beliefs and ideals. But ¡K that is what it is in the purest respect. It¡¦s merely a word attributed to the series¡¦ and beliefs¡¦ that you credit Christianity and Catholicism and Islam and Hinduism and Buddhism and ¡K the whole slew of other religions out there.

You cannot say that they were created ¡K (you can say that you think so ¡K) but, out of sheer logical reasoning: How do you explain the religions of China ¡K and Europe? And of course, how do you explain India ¡K ? I ask you if it¡¦s merely a coincidence that people in all of those continents just DECIDED to come up with some tool to judge the world. No, I really don¡¦t believe that. I think that there is a God out there. I just happened to choose Christianity. There¡¦s an argument going around out there that Christ and Allah and all the other Gods are merely one in the same. I don¡¦t take much stock in that either ¡K but that¡¦s just because I don¡¦t like to complicate things. I still find Christ to be my Savior ¡K yeeeaaah.





No, that¡¦s not something overlooked by the Fathers of Religion (which don¡¦t exist). It¡¦s just a fact about humanity. The thing is, God realizes it. But, that ¡K hate ¡K fear? ¡K it¡¦s actually just pride. Pride that we as individuals are better than anything different than what we are. That same Pride is what drives us to defy God ¡K to say that there is no God (this is all from my perspective) ¡K and just to take part in all of the trolling being done around here, let me say that your little RANT is just an open invitation for someone to tear you apart with actual intelligence. „² Hey LOOK!!! CONCEIT!!! See? That¡¦s pride right there. I¡¦ll tell you straight up that from what I¡¦ve heard from you ¡K you have a great deal of it. And while you are in fact open minded ¡K that doesn¡¦t change the fact that you¡¦re not naturally so. You have to tell yourself to be open-minded, so that people can¡¦t attack you. I won¡¦t take pride in saying that I¡¦m open-minded. I will say however that I respect any opinion you have, and unless you ask me to, I won¡¦t judge it to be good or bad. Frankly, I don¡¦t normally care. But since you asked, and since I¡¦m long overdue for anything ¡¥profound¡¦, let me indulge myself and you as well by benefiting you my velvety smoothness of analytical ability. See, that¡¦s pride, right there. Pride in humility ¡K hilarious, eh? Really, the only way to avoid pride is to completely fail to care one way or anther.

I¡¦m getting close.





Ok, like Hollow said, you can¡¦t blame a war made by a single idiot on Christianity in itself. In fact, Hollow so effectively said what I wanted to say that ¡K hell, I don¡¦t need to say anything else.





While I don¡¦t doubt the fact that this is true ¡K the fact is, a lot of Christians are ignorant. It¡¦s already been discussed, so I won¡¦t elaborate. But, I felt like commenting this:

A man laying with another man is viewed as sinful ¡K abhorrent ¡K an abomination. Whichever way you slice the cake ¡K something foul in God¡¦s eyes. But all that makes it is a sin. It¡¦s no more worse a sin that stealing, killing, lying, cheating, or any of that mess. Therefore, just because you¡¦re well ¡K different ¡K that doesn¡¦t mean you automatically go to Hell. Christianity, in it¡¦s truest and understood form, is basically forgiveness of all sins, be them sins as they are. But most people don¡¦t realize that, including Christians. So they automatically shun anyone not Christian. I would argue in their defense that they are afraid that being around people who are not Christians ¡K and don¡¦t have the same values or views or beliefs scare them in the sense that they may forget their own values and adopt those of their friends.

But, if you ask me, that just means that they aren¡¦t particularly strong in their values and beliefs to the point that those beliefs and values would survive on their own.

And, just a little thing about Christians casting fate on other people: many Christians fail to realize that they have no right whatsoever to dictate whether or not something is right or wrong. We don¡¦t know God¡¦s will, and we don¡¦t know whether or not God will judge something to burn or live. What we can do is compare someone¡¦s behavior to the Bible, and see if it coincides, but we have no right to just up and tell someone how they will be judged. No, not even preachers have this right. We have the right to an opinion, but not to spell it out for people.

Yeah. Had to clear that up.




Ok, let me just be a little hypocritical because I want to point something out: You¡¦re not a bible scholar. So, with that said, you¡¦re only 19. Furthermore, when¡¦s the last time you read the Bible? Furthermore, the Bible isn¡¦t a book ¡K it¡¦s a compilation of Books ¡K 66 in fact. It¡¦s quite a number. Not to mention the countless texts that weren¡¦t included in the actual compilation that further support Christ.

Have you read the Qu¡¦ran? How about Buddha¡¦s letters? Have you any idea on Shintoism? What about all the other paganistic religions out there? You cannot truly say that you know about all of these religions until you fully know them. And, from what I¡¦ve seen ¡K you don¡¦t actually know Christianity as well as you would have us believe. Honestly, you were a Christian when you were 12!!!! How could you possibly expect to understand anything at an age before puberty actually hit you??? Honestly Wind!

Now let me delve a little into Collective Consciousness: The concept of Supreme Being rings true of all religions. It sounds like conspiracy to you, maybe. But it sounds like God talking to everybody to me. It sounds like God putting the idea into our hearts. But no, that¡¦s not fair to God. What it really sounds like is our hearts reaching out in desperation for something we know in our hearts to be there. That¡¦s why all sorts of religions believe in a supreme Being. That¡¦s why you have religions on different continents believing in God¡¦s of all things. And in terms of Christianity, God commanded for people to not do certain things.

But the thing is, he gave us the choice to follow him or not. Isn¡¦t that love enough? To give us the choice to follow his commands or not?

Furthermore, initially you would be damned for your carnal pleasures. But remember that no sin is greater than another, because a sin is a sin, up and down and down and up. And when you¡¦re forgiven for ALL sins by Christ, that means ALL sins. Never mind if you commit them over and over again ¡K Christianity is freedom from the Law set down by God ¡K in the sense that you cannot be punished for breaking that law. Paul said that one. And as for the debated topic as to whether or not it¡¦s a sin ¡K what does it matter? If you¡¦re guilty of one sin, you¡¦re guilty of another too. One particular sin doesn¡¦t send you to hell ¡K but remember that it only takes one sin at all to automatically condemn you. Because no matter what, you¡¦ve committed some other sin in your life too. But, that¡¦s what Christ was for. Freedom from Condemnation because he paid the price for your sins. He took the blame, he took the suffering, he took all of the burden on his own two shoulders.

Who cares how he did it? Just know that he did and be done with it. If you need to worry about why, or how, then obviously you lack Faith. If you believe something is true, is it necessary to determine why it is true? If it¡¦s true to you, then why do you need to wonder about whether or not it¡¦s true or not? Truth isn¡¦t relative, despite what I lead you to think. And, just to let you know: I¡¦m getting one of those feelings of close connection with God when I write all of this. Seriously, I feel wonderful ¡K because I know that I¡¦m communing the truth. That ¡K truth while not being relative is different for all people.

My main point in this is: worry more about yourself and stop worrying about other peoples¡¦ opinions.



All of that is circumstantial crap. I admit that people attempt to divine God¡¦s will. Self-proclaimed prophets and what-not saying that this is God¡¦s will. The Greek did it, the Romans did it ¡K Christians do it ¡K yeah. Jesus even warned in two of the Gospels ¡K no, probably all four of them ¡K that there would be false prophets who would arise and say that they knew the will of God.

But, as for the Gender of God ¡K it doesn¡¦t wholly matter. As I¡¦ve come to see it ¡K at least, in Christian doctrines, God functions as a Trinity. There is the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit. These three each are God, and yet, all three together they are God. The Father is the representation of complete Authority and Judgment ¡K the Son is the representation of Love and submission to Authority and judgment ¡K and the Holy Spirit is the reflection of that perfect relationship of God. Together, they make up one being. I think one of the biggest problems is that people keep attempting to ascribe physical descriptions for each portion of God ¡K but you can¡¦t define something that doesn¡¦t exist in this world. And I mean this dimension of existence. The only exception of the Son, who out of love for this world offered Himself to pay for the lives of everyone who normally would have been fated to die in judgment.

There are arguments to support my theory. Which isn¡¦t mine by the way, but rather what I¡¦ve gleaned from the materials on Christ I¡¦ve absorbed ¡K the preaching I¡¦ve heard ¡K and my own intuition. One of them being that you cannot know the Father, Judgment and Authority, except through the Son ¡K which is Love and submission to that Judgment and Authority. You cannot know the Son except through the Holy Spirit, which is the indwelling of God in all Christians (true Christians that is) ¡K basically, the spirit is the reflection of how we should act towards God ¡K it¡¦s kind of like the external conscience of greater strength that God provides us with. The son is the perfect example of Love and Submission ¡K and you cannot be ready to submit to judgment except through the Son. And the Father of course if the Great Authority and Judgment, by which all things are judged.

Yeah, another bible lesson.



Again, humans can¡¦t actually divine the Will of God. Unfortunately, a lot of us think that we can, and we use Religion as a tool to justify ourselves. Sad, but true. I admit, you¡¦re right in this respect. But, I again re-iterate that we didn¡¦t fashion the tool, we just use it.



Again, more circumstantial bull crap. You know, let me say something a Muslim friend of mine told me. We were talking about the difference between Christianity and Islam ¡K (and I was new at understanding it) ¡K and one of the things I pointed out was that Islam is guilty of far more crimes lately than of Christianity.

¡§So your religion doesn¡¦t sacrifice babies ¡K Big deal.¡¨

Seriously, that¡¦s what he said. It was so hilarious though, when I read it. But it¡¦s a horrible reflection into how horrible the world has become. I won¡¦t deny that Christianity is littered with countless hypocrites ¡K people who claim to follow, but don¡¦t quite understand what they¡¦re following ¡K and since they don¡¦t, they¡¦re not quite following because they don¡¦t know how to follow it (that¡¦s probably what you were trying to say earlier Wind). You can¡¦t blame religion for the actions of Men. You can blame the Men, no problem. But not their beliefs. Just their sick purposes in twisting them.





Thus always to tyrants ¡K and the second part ¡K looks like Onward/For to Victory. I¡¦m not sure if I¡¦m right. Latin isn¡¦t too great for me. I like how you threw in tyrants there. I won¡¦t argue with you on that one ¡K many people in power are ¡K well, corrupted by it. Can¡¦t help it, it¡¦s just human nature. So, in this concept, I agree with you.

As for the ¡K ¡¥serpentine¡¦ cycle ¡K well, I suppose I could agree, in the sense that society has never been this corrupt before. It just seems like a drain really. It¡¦s not really an endless cycle, because eventually, it¡¦s going to end. I never had very much faith in the Human Race ¡K that was evident in Time and Tangibility ¡K remember?




Again, you can¡¦t really blame people for what they do in power. But, you can¡¦t charge the whole with the actions of an individual ¡K because an individual doesn¡¦t accurately make up the whole. It can¡¦t. Which is why democracy and a republic and the electoral college and basically the American Government is horribly flawed, at least in the sense that it¡¦s trying to provide for the entire American People ¡K because the American People is WAAAAYYY too diverse. So it¡¦s impossible to please everyone ¡K and the same unity of America that we had in WW(X) just doesn¡¦t exist anymore.

X is less than or equal to 3, but greater than 1.

Life is just getting more and more complicated.




Ok, just more stuff about blaming religion and what-not.



Umm ¡K see above?





Ok, I¡¦m getting tired of saying it, so I¡¦ll just completely outline it right now:

A religion is always going to change based on society. That much is true. But what you seem to think (seem) is that Man can consciously re-define God. That¡¦s not possible. All that Man can do is redefine it¡¦s definition of God, which seems stupid, but actually isn¡¦t. Man can change his interpretations on God, but he can¡¦t change God itself. God is, was, and forever shall be. While Man can influence how men see God, man cannot influence God itself. I think that you see this, and yet, don¡¦t¡¦ truly see it. Rather, you see only that Man can change the masses, and yet, you fail to see that God doesn¡¦t change. If you believed in a God, maybe you would understand. But you completely deny any existence of God whatsoever ¡K and because you¡¦re incapable of even conceiving of a God, how could you say that there is no God?

Let me give you a bit of knowledge: You never can¡¦t until you stop trying. Nothing¡¦s ever impossible until you think it is.

Just because you haven¡¦t found God, or because God isn¡¦t actually looking for you at this moment doesn¡¦t mean that God isn¡¦t out there. You don¡¦t see it, but god moves in millions of subtle machinations every instant of every instant of every instant in infinite respects. God is infinite ¡K but God isn¡¦t physical. You never seemed to realize that in one of the rants I read about you and God. You can¡¦t conceive of a God if you¡¦re too busy looking at him from Man¡¦s perspective, which unfortunately never stays the same. Furthermore, you can¡¦t attack someone else¡¦s faith if you yourself don¡¦t have any. You can¡¦t say someone doesn¡¦t believe correctly if you yourself don¡¦t believe.

Don¡¦t be a hypocrite in calling other people hypocrites. Me? I won¡¦t pretend to believe as I should. I know that there is a God, I know I¡¦m forgiven, I know for a fact that I¡¦m saved. I don¡¦t doubt God ¡K at least, I don¡¦t feel myself doubting God. No, I doubt myself ¡K and my sincerity. But that¡¦s another story.

Do you want to know why I came to God? I didn¡¦t do it because I wanted to go to Heaven. If I had my way (which I don¡¦t ¡K thank God „²play on words), I¡¦d burn in Hell. I didn¡¦t even come because he was knocking so loudly. And believe me, God was knocking on my door for a long time. I came to God for this reason: In a world that endeavors to judge every aspect of itself, I find that nothing in this thing called reality is actually stable. All of it is mutable, changeable, never constant. I was looking for a standard. Something with which to base myself and compare myself against. No, I had already found it, but I wouldn¡¦t admit it. And every time that God knocked, I said not yet. I¡¦m not ready. I need to wait. But ¡K eventually, I stopped waiting. I realized that the standard I was looking for is God. That immovable constant that will never change is God. So much the worse for people who interpret God in a different way. I just know that God isn¡¦t going to change. And, let me tell you this:

You don¡¦t need society to tell you what God is, despite what so many seem to think. You don¡¦t need Church to be saved either, because I never went to Church until AFTER I got saved. And you don¡¦t need anyone to tell you who God is. God is in your heart, just as he is in mine. You feel God.

Don¡¦t you remember? Don¡¦t force it. Feel it. You can¡¦t look for God, He looks for you. You have to feel him. You have to look; you have to believe; you have to know. Until then, you have no right whatsoever to say that religion is wrong, or that religion was created to be religion, or any of that. Because you haven¡¦t actually EXPERIENCED religion. You say that you have, and I respect that. But, you can¡¦t expect to experience anything when you¡¦ve only been alive for 19 years.


So, in final response to every thing you¡¦ve written ¡K I have one final word of advice to you:

You¡¦re not right, so get over yourself and try again.

Just Friendly Advice.

~ Gabriel, Risen Angel ~

[Edited on 22-11-2005 by Found a Key]

[Edited on 22-11-2005 by Found a Key]

wow, that\'s a f***ing long post

do you have something agains NewWindRider or something :conf:

i don\'t think he\'s a bad person but this is your first post and you already begin to hate one member.

if you ask me you shouldn\'t be allowed in here because of this

if it is no to offend NewWindRider then sorry about my comment

In any case Found a Key needs to be banned for such a long post as this and messed up this topic soo much, which really this topic did not need to be made.

Post redacted

Okay Wind, sorry.

[quote]Originally posted by NewWindRider~
People don\'t get banned for long posts. And this person doesn\'t have anything against me. In fact, unless I\'ve missed something terribly important, I believe that this is a good friend of mine.

However, I must regret to inform Key that I will be unable to combat him here and now with this, as I have much work to do, and less time to do it in. Fear not, though. I will get back to you.

And Jaden... please, more than one sentence per paragraph lol. The \" . \" is your friend

[Edited on 11/22/2005 by NewWindRider~] [/quote]

oh sorry for insulting him
one question though, is this topic messed up in your browser, because it is here. :conf:

if it is, isn\'t it better to close this one and begin a new one :conf:

[Edited on 22-11-2005 by Ray]

[quote]Originally posted by Ray
[quote]Originally posted by NewWindRider~
People don\'t get banned for long posts. And this person doesn\'t have anything against me. In fact, unless I\'ve missed something terribly important, I believe that this is a good friend of mine.

However, I must regret to inform Key that I will be unable to combat him here and now with this, as I have much work to do, and less time to do it in. Fear not, though. I will get back to you.

And Jaden... please, more than one sentence per paragraph lol. The \" . \" is your friend

[Edited on 11/22/2005 by NewWindRider~] [/quote]

oh sorry for insulting him
one question though, is this topic messed up in your browser, because it is here. :conf:

if it is, isn\'t it better to close this one and begin a new one :conf:

[Edited on 22-11-2005 by Ray] [/quote]

Nah, Found a Key simply messed up a quote thing...I\'m sure some mod will fix it.

Post redacted

This should be closed.

If this topic was to get your attention, why wasnt it PMed?

[Edited on 22-11-2005 by Mystic]

[quote]Originally posted by Mystic
This should be closed.

If this topic was to get your attention, why wasnt it PMed?

[Edited on 22-11-2005 by Mystic] [/quote]

I think it wasn\'t meant as a topic, but as a reply in the \'False Gods and Death Squads\' thread.
Yet he shows some interesting new views on the matter...

Post redacted

Let me clear this up:

Gabriel is NOT Kiryu, nor am I. I am Gabriel. I already said that, of course. But I am NOT Kiryu, nor do I have a damned clue who Kiryu is.


Thank you

Kiryu was a pretty bad spammer, and his grammer was awful. He also was a pretty irrational, hard to reason with guy; I doubt he\'d be starting a religous topic or typing this much in one post.

Yes, I applaud long posting! I\'ll have to read it later. Like Wind, er, I\'m busy at my job... of drawing Tiesel as a pilgrim. Still, Gabriel, if you were responding to this, would it not have been a good idea to simply post this in Wind\'s topic instead of making a new one?

[Edited on 22-11-2005 by AimMan v2.5]

It\'s not coming from me....:lol:

I agree with Found a Key, even though I haven\'t been following along with the false gods and death squads topic. Bravo to someone who just gave wind a good arguement.

No, you\'re worse than Kiryu. He was actually fun to deal with.

GO AWAY. You\'re just more work for Doc having to ban you constantly, you..whatever you are. Go bring your \"philisophical\" rants to REAL philsophy boards where they will laugh at how pretentious you are. The kids here don\'t know the difference and think you\'re smart because LOLZ BIG POSTS WOW

And I thought you were disliking him quite alot, last I checked, Wind.

Post redacted