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Androcles
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I LOVE Megaman, in (almost) all his incarnations. But sometimes he lets me down. Or rather, Capcom and/or Keiji Inafune let me down.

Don't you think there are plot holes that need to be filled in? Aren't there too many games with too little story development? Does the corruption present amongst the Maverick Hunters bother anyone but me? Go ahead and vent, I wanna know what's on Megaman fans' minds.

BTW, I wasn't sure which MM series to post this under, so I put it here. A mod can move it if need be. Hopefully it won't be deleted! :o Also, I think I was on this site years ago under the name Saechan.

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Does the corruption present amongst the Maverick Hunters bother anyone but me?


Say what?

Anyway I'm not sure if MM was ever really about story, and if it was, it's been out of Inafune's hands since X5, but now he's got control back in his hands, so place your blame accordingly.


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AimMan v2.5
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Hey, a series this big, there's bound to be let downs every once and a while. Although, in my opinion, the corruption in the Maverick Hunters has been a good thing plotwise. It helped for Shadow to be evil in Command Mission and for Repliforce to break off and become the enemy in X4. You know, it definitely helps give you some diversion from random people suddenly going maverick.

So far as too little plot development goes... I don't think it's too little development, it might just be not enough intrigue in the case of the X series.

Yes, the series have their flaws, but I haven't really been disappointed with Capcom on any of their major decisions so far. I guess I'm just too easily pleased. :hehe:


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Yes, in X4. The original series never bothered me with its lack of storyline. The X series really does though.. I know, it's a Megaman game and you shouldn't worry about the plot. But Capcom shouldn't try to MAKE such a strong plot in the first place, if they're not going to follow-through.


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Originally posted by AimMan v2.5
Hey, a series this big, there's bound to be let downs every once and a while. Although, in my opinion, the corruption in the Maverick Hunters has been a good thing plotwise. It helped for Shadow to be evil in Command Mission and for Repliforce to break off and become the enemy in X4.


Actually, the Repliforce wasn't part of the Maverick Hunters. It was a brand new fighting group made for a somewhat different purpose.


Disappointed? Not me. Of course, the Original Series's plot is thin because of the limitations of the early games. That doesn't bug me, since what is there does the job well.

What I especially like is the set of events that followed Mega Man X5's Eurasia Space Station crisis. The Earth has been badly damaged, and the follow-up games take this into consideration: in X6, Gate uses the overall confusion caused by the crash to attempt to control all low-level reploids. Later on, humanity considers an exile into space while the Earth recovers. By the time that the Zero series comes around, the widespread damage has forced people and reploids to regroup while a major lack of energy sources threatens everyone. I think that it all ties up together nicely to create an ongoing plot point with some consistency.


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Androcles
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Dr. Cossack himself posted. Cool! ^_^

I think that a lot of Megaman fans don't care about the storyline so I'm always alone. Most people probably never notice that there was an issue of "reploid rights" raised throughout the X series. And sometimes the Maverick Hunters seem to go a little too far with the way they treat other reploids. Repliforce wasn't really guilty of attacking the Sky Lagoon but the way they were treated by the Hunters caused them to revolt. That's just one example. One more is in Command Mission. Most of the Liberion army were not really bad. I don't know if this counts as a SPOILER, but they even decided that Epsilon was not a maverick at the end of the game-after he was already dead!

And of course we're never going to find out what EXACTLY happened to the original Megaman and all the other old characters. We'll get hints, but nothing concrete. There will not be a MM9.

Okay, those are just my complaints on the story but I've got more on other issues. I want to hear more from everyone else if possible. Even if you think I'm crazy for caring about this stuff, that's okay too. :lol:

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I feel the story could be further fleshed out. I mean, if Capcom ever sat down and gave an X game a deeper story like they do with games like Devil May Cry and such, I think a lot of fans would appreciate it.

I've always wondered how humans would react to reploid rights. One of my characters has dedicated himself to destroying the reploid race, and it'd be neat if Capcom could go into that a bit more.

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Aren't there too many games with too little story development?


Actually, there's too MUCH story development. The series somehow kicked ass by ignoring how cheesy a plot could be ("I'm'a make more robot masters!"? "Let's frame people!"? Mr. X?) and ignoring all the holes in logic (why would you have the robot master hanging out in an isolated room?) and just providing a solid gameplay experience of fun.

Then they try not to have cheesy stories, and what happens? Robots fall in love, the world is mostly destroyed, good and evil become confused, some person is weirdly named "Tron" (and "MegaMan"), etc. etc. etc..

Good game series don't have to have a great plot. If you want plot, it might be a wiser idea to use a different medium--such as the novel, the play, the film, the opera, the short story, the radio show, the TV series. The plot of the game (in games that involve a plot) serves the purpose of driving the player to complete the game. A complex, detailed plot may not always be the best idea--in FFVII, it was too complex and was a drag on the game. That is not to say a complex plot is absolutely impermissible--it was done in FFVI (albeit, less complex than FFVII, but still very detailed and most importantly very effective).

Even more so than the Castlevania series, the Mega Man series is based in gameplay, not plot (with the possible exception of the Battle Network subseries, which I'm not familiar with other than the main premise).


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....so you're saying there are no logic holes in the X series?

That's what I was saying, that Capcom tried to build a story for the X series but it fell flat. Perhaps because the games are too short. Legends was a great game series though, and actually is the only MM series with a solid plot.

If you want cheese, play the original. X had a good storyline in the first game, but it just got more ridiculous as it went on.

And yeah, CV was alot better without characters speaking and plot twists. I still don't know who Mathias is.


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Planescape: Torment had a deep, detailed plot. And even though it was fairly complex, there was enough explanation to make sense of everything.


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Yeah WellI have some problems with the plot myself like in x6 "Zero: I hid myself while I repaired myself) but the thing that I want the very most if for the series to tie together I mean just make ONE MORE Megaman game to tie it into X and END the x series and tie it to Zero for the love of all that is good tie them together.

I understand that Capcom wants to milk the Megaman series for all it's worth but if they don't want to only make one more game at least make a couple all of them moving more and mroe to the x series that'll work just as well.

ok that's all for me


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Actually Zero was lying to X when he said that, because if you take him to one of the Light capsules--Yammark, I think--he readily admits that he has no clue and he woke up fine.


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In all honesty I've never really cared about the story in Megaman games. My favorite series is still the original, most of which are NES games. I just play the games because I find the gameplay fun. It's not as if I completely disregard the story but I honestly don't think it's worth caring about so much that it hurts my enjoyment of the games.


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Originally posted by Glenn Magus Harvey
Even more so than the Castlevania series, the Mega Man series is based in gameplay, not plot (with the possible exception of the Battle Network subseries, which I'm not familiar with other than the main premise).


The Battle Network games, which are almost all RPGs, do have a plot to bring everything together. The whole story unfolds over the various games, often referring to past events to help consolidate everything. Of course, it's a lot of "save the world" missions, but many RPGs do the same thing.

There are no big twists of the plot in the Battle Network series, but I think that it does the job anyway. The characters themselves are fun enough to bring everything together to create it's own world.


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I don't play megaman games for the story line, I play because they are fun and challenging *coughX1cough*. BN has a storyline to it (Although it's quite cliche'd). Legends had a Semi-story to it. X had a story (Just not a very deep one) to it. Original was just "Wily escaped blast him pew pew he's gone, wait til next game".


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Originally posted by HollowTorment
....so you're saying there are no logic holes in the X series?


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Robots fall in love


Most. Obnoxious. Logic. Hole. Ever.

Oh, by the way--Mathias? He's the local fool who got a really cool "key RPG item" and decided to use it. Too bad he realized that he was screwed when he could actually make a stupid decision and NOT get away with it, proving that life within a videogame series isn't like life within a videogame series--or...something like that.

Visit Wikipedia's page for Lament of Innocence if you want more detailed info.


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..robots fell in love in the X series?

Technically only X and Zero are robots, everyone else is a reploid. Don't try to tell me Zero was in love with Iris, either.


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Well I'm pretty sure that Capcom was trying to shoot for that.


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I think certain logic needs to be ignored for suspension of disbelief in an X game.

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So robots can have free will, fight wars, come back from the dead, philosophize about what the point of fighting is and save each other from a viral infection via the power of friendship, but the minute they start falling in love the Logic Hole alarm goes off?


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All the talk about the X series. Remember, it's not the maveric hunters to blame, it's Colonel for being an idiot.

All games considered, the plot was kinda going down the drain, especially when they left MML unfinished.


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Androcles
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Originally posted by Glenn Magus Harvey
A complex, detailed plot may not always be the best idea--in FFVII, it was too complex and was a drag on the game. That is not to say a complex plot is absolutely impermissible--it was done in FFVI (albeit, less complex than FFVII, but still very detailed and most importantly very effective).


I agree about Final Fantasy. VI was better than VII. Kefka was a lot more fun than Sephiroth, and there were too many story elements in VII that they didn't go into. I guess that's why they eventually made a movie and other game(s) for FFVII.

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Originally posted by J_Hibiki
Yeah WellI have some problems with the plot myself like in x6 "Zero: I hid myself while I repaired myself) but the thing that I want the very most if for the series to tie together I mean just make ONE MORE Megaman game to tie it into X and END the x series and tie it to Zero for the love of all that is good tie them together.

I understand that Capcom wants to milk the Megaman series for all it's worth but if they don't want to only make one more game at least make a couple all of them moving more and mroe to the x series that'll work just as well.


Amen! That's what I meant when I said there's too little story development. They keep making new games without ever tying all the series together concretely. They shouldn't raise all these issues without seeing them through. I was so excited when I played MM7, but what happened? I thought that was going to be the start of some major developments.

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Originally posted by Sephiroth XX
All the talk about the X series. Remember, it's not the maveric hunters to blame, it's Colonel for being an idiot.

All games considered, the plot was kinda going down the drain, especially when they left MML unfinished.


I know Colonel was being an idiot because all reploids seem to overreact. Must be in their "DNA" (j/k). But when Colonel asked to meet with Zero at Memorial Hall it was Zero who struck first. Colonel didn't seem to want a fight. My problem with the Hunters is that they seem just as anxious to administer the death penalty to reploids as the reploids are to overreact. (Come to think of it, is there any other penalty for reploids besides death?) And that's not the only time when the Hunters have been overly harsh in their judgements and accusations against reploids.

As for the Legends series, I never enjoyed the gameplay as much as the old 2D style games, but the characters were a lot of fun and I hope to see a sequal. But they'll probably make a dozen more Battle Network games before they get started on MML3.

Edited by Androcles on July 14, 2006 at 21:09:19.

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Originally posted by Androcles
My problem with the Hunters is that they seem just as anxious to administer the death penalty to reploids as the reploids are to overreact. (Come to think of it, is there any other penalty for reploids besides death?) And that's not the only time when the Hunters have been overly harsh in their judgements and accusations against reploids.


The way I see it, the Maverick Hunters are always busy with world crisis after world crisis. As such, they don't really have the time to do it another way: killing all mavericks, hoping to make an example of them to stop the others, is pretty much the only choice that they have. They do try to talk this over with a few of the bosses, but it seems to never work.


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Well you see..

Zero is a Hunter and..

He's..he's psychotic. So there's no talking, if you are a Maverick, you are dead. Just so he can watch the blood run down his hands.

X tries to talk things over, though.


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Androcles
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Originally posted by HollowTorment
Well you see..

Zero is a Hunter and..

He's..he's psychotic. So there's no talking, if you are a Maverick, you are dead. Just so he can watch the blood run down his hands.

X tries to talk things over, though.


That's so true! I don't know if you were joking but that's really the way I see Zero. He has shown himself to be more aggresive than X on many occasions. And like I said in another thread, I think he would be killing whether or not he was a Maverick Hunter. If he wasn't a Maverick Hunter he'd be a bounty hunter or something. He just uses it as an outlet for the violent tendencies that are "programed" into him by you know who.

But getting back to my original topic, my main problem with the Megaman franchise is that they won't make a game (or games) to just finally tie the MM-X-Zero-Legends series together completely. I don't like sloppy storytelling with unnecessary gaps and plotholes; even if it's "just a videogame". I was curious to see how many other people cared about this. I actually got more people to agree with me (or partially agree) than I expected! But I can see that there's not enough fans who give a darn, to actually make Capcom get their act together.

I'll still keep buying the X games if they keep making them, and most of the other games too. I hope they make another Legends game; and I hope they really put some effort into making it good. Most of my other complaints are with MMX specifically (although it's my favorite series) so maybe I'll make a different thread in the X forum later. I have some questions about MM7 that I wanna ask about in the Original series forum too. Of course anyone else can still post their thoughts on how the Megaman franchise can be improved here. I just want to know what's on Megaman fan's minds.

Edited by Androcles on July 15, 2006 at 21:00:49.

Edited by Androcles on July 15, 2006 at 21:01:39.

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Hah no, I wasn't joking. :) Zero's pretty homicidal, at least as the games went on. He seemed like a pretty cool-headed guy at first, but then he went into his "damn" and "shut up and fight".

And Androcles..actually that's the problem. There are alot of people unsatisfied with the Megaman series, but they still buy the games. Why? That's just telling Capcom to make more of the same crap.

As soon as X went to 3D, I stopped buying the games. I didn't buy Command Mission either. Or any of the PSP remakes..or any BN games after 1. I bought the Collections though, hoping Capcom might have gotten abit of a hint.. ;P


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Androcles
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Maybe I'm just a loyalist by nature, even when that loyalty isn't deserved. It's rare that I ever stop liking anything or anyone that I've liked in the past. But I also just buy X games out of curiosity to see if they're going to develop the story. I buy them as a bad habit really.

And I don't prefer the 3D-ish games either. I liked X4 because it had great 2D graphics, plus the anime scenes. Even though that's the game where I first started to lose faith in the Maverick Hunters, it's still my favorite. I thought X and Zero were really going to "clean house" in the next game (X5) and reform the Maverick Hunters into a more fair group. But X5 may have been even more vicious and unjust than X4.

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How? X and Zero tried to talk their way out off virtually every bos fight.


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X5 and X6 felt just like they were thrown in there.
BN4 and BN5 as well.
For X5 and X6 i felt like i was just going around, and busting some caps in reploids. A hard stage there, a real WTF here. Not much.
BN4's whole...tournament, and "plzplaythegamethreetimestounlockallthesouls" felt like too much of a bore to me. I mean, i like the different scenarios and all, but the main storyline doesn't change. I'm tired of handing Duo his ...(does he even have an ass)
BN5's liberation battles..eh...I think enough to do a big run-around through the entire game and give this person his chip, and go beat that navi for doing something bad, any more thinking and my brain'll burst.
But, hey, that's just me.


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