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Maybe that's just me, but I think that the world seen in the Mega Man Battle Network series has evolved over time, and not for the best. This is not related to the quality of the games themselves: it's more related to how the world has been shown to work.

Way back when Mega Man Battle Network (1) was released, we were introduced to a parallel universe where pretty much everyone owns a PET, each unit equipped with a NetNavi (customized or not). That Navi can go online, send messages, take care of appointments... it's like some sort of PDA on steroids, along with a friendly personality.

In MMBN1, the Internet is some sort of large, empty place where you can move freely from area to area (as long as you have the required passcodes). Somehow, I felt that this version better represented how a real network is, unlike the sequels where you could find virtual trees and signs everywhere. A notable exception goes to MMBN2 and 3, which had the squares that hit close to the virtual communities we see today, even featuring message boards.

As the series moved forward, it's as if the developpers no longer cared about explaning stuff, or making it similar to our version of the Internet. For example, at one point, things turned silly when Battle Network 5 introduced cyber-ninjas. Everything could be excused with the concept of "cyber this", or "cyber that", like the curse put on MegaMan in Battle Network 4's scenario with Raoul. There wasn't as much abuse of that idea in the earlier titles. Back in the first game, MegaMan got stuck on a power surge in the school network, requiring Lan to run all the way and shut off the problematic piece of equipment! Of course, that's not to say that the earlier games all were perfect: the virtual ice blocks all over the net in Battle Network 2 sure were annoying, and weren't too logical since they happened everywhere at once.

Again, this isn't related to the quality of the games themselves: the battle system was at it's best in MMBN5DS, with more options than before. The quality of the music has kept itself high along the series and the plot remains at least somewhat interesting (with the exception of Battle Network 4's random scenarios...). What I have more in mind is the way the digital world is shown.

Do you have any thoughts on this, or other examples on how things got different over time?

(Note that I haven't played Mega Man Battle Network 6 yet, so I can't judge it.)


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I think virtual communities and other virtual crap should be in BN, since the NetNavis are basically act human (though trees and stuff would still be pretty cosmetic). I think at some points the designers didn't care but there's some definite logical correlation with how things are supposed to work. Above all, though, the draw was collecting BattleChips, not pretty places to run around in.

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There's something that I forgot to cover in my other post. In the first three Battle Network games, a point was able very clear: each Navi has a human operator. Some, as was the case with ShadowMan in Battle Network 2, merely remained hidden to do their work undetected. That was what made Bass so special: he did NOT have a human operator, as he was the result of a failed experiment to create an autonomous Navi. However, Battle Network 4 and 5 went all over the place by introducing several new Navis without matching operators, and even implying sometimes that they didn't have any! I think it's a bit of a shame that it lost part of the "teamwork" aspect that defined the series.


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That's not true.

BN1: Stoneman and Bombman had no operators

BN2: Cutman had no operator

BN3: Bubbleman had no operator.

Those come to mind even without having played the game for a while.


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It could be that the ones without operators were:

A. Lying about not having an operator.

B. Their operators NEVER appeared, but they still had them.

C. Multiple navis had ONE operator. (MMBN5, all four bosses being Regal's)


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I'm thinking they were fairly specific on the point that StoneMan and BombMan have no operators. I know they go out of their way to get it across in the anime, anyways. Not that I hold it in particularly high regard, mind you. XD

Bubbleman also, I believe, is mentioned to have no operator. I never saw one for CutMan, but I'm not sure if that necessarily means he didn't have one.

But yeah, there was a greater abundance of operatorless navis back then, I'd say.


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I didn't think about those other navis from the older games... but you have a point on that one. It just feels like there were less random operators in recent games, such as Masa or Sal. They didn't really have any real purpose on the plot, they merely served as examples that many, many people used PETs. It helped to give a feeling that not only people who try to save or destroy the world own them.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Cossack
I didn't think about those other navis from the older games... but you have a point on that one. It just feels like there were less random operators in recent games, such as Masa or Sal. They didn't really have any real purpose on the plot, they merely served as examples that many, many people used PETs. It helped to give a feeling that not only people who try to save or destroy the world own them.


Well really, it's not like BN6 operators don't give off that same feel. I mean, they're not entirely optional like some in the first game, but they aren't directly plot related at all. Most are just guys you have to work with temporarily or train under to get new power; they aren't at all trying to save the world or destroy it.

The tournaments often felt very iffy, so far as everyone being in distress all the time, but I think that BN6 operators could be considered just as casual as BN1's.


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As far as areas go...

I honestly didn't see much a problem with the way the networks "evolved". If you ask me, it makes perfect sense.

In BN-1, we're introduced to a world where Network Navigation is still pretty new, as well as the introduction of net navis in general. I'd assume that, being sentient beings, the Netnavis were growing a bit bored with the tacky, simplistic networks.

The trees and things were possibly added by the network designers to give the network an "environmental" feel to keep navigators from going crazy with boredom while they travelled the network. It also made certain areas easier to identify, so one would be able to tell where they were.

Besides, we're all only human. Sometimes we just do things because we CAN. So who's to say some internet designer didn't just get bored one day and say, "I think I'll plant some trees... ON THE INTERNET!"

Also, now that I think about it, some of the stages like the oven Network were very customized as you can see. I guess after making the game, the programmers compared the internet to networks of special devices like that and realized they needed to synch more.

Edited by FlareMan on March 10, 2007 at 17:11:11.


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1,2, and 3 were okay.

Once they dragged in that "good vs. evil" junk, well, that was the negative turn... and Django really did NOT have to join the BN crew, obscure as he was.

And we all know about the difficulty plunge of a couple of recent last bosses... (think Pokémon-like)


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Quote:
Originally posted by HighMaxOmega
1,2, and 3 were okay.

Once they dragged in that "good vs. evil" junk, well, that was the negative turn... and Django really did NOT have to join the BN crew, obscure as he was.

And we all know about the difficulty plunge of a couple of recent last bosses... (think Pokémon-like)


Plunge? From what I heard, bosses were getting Harder?

Though, I still thing Alpha was the hardest...


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After Duo...pssh, no wai man.


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Quote:
Originally posted by FlareMan
Quote:
Originally posted by HighMaxOmega
1,2, and 3 were okay.

Once they dragged in that "good vs. evil" junk, well, that was the negative turn... and Django really did NOT have to join the BN crew, obscure as he was.

And we all know about the difficulty plunge of a couple of recent last bosses... (think Pokémon-like)


Plunge? From what I heard, bosses were getting Harder?

Though, I still thing Alpha was the hardest...


Just reading that post I can tell you haven't played BN6...

Greiga is a wuss and likewise with Falzar. It was harder and harder up to 5, Grey just sucked to fight, hitting that damn little soul ball.


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Originally posted by Black Dranzer.exe
Grey just sucked to fight, hitting that damn little soul ball.


How is that any worse than trying to hit Alpha's regenerating core? Both can be very annoying. Personally, it was Duo who gave me the most trouble.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Cossack
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Originally posted by Black Dranzer.exe
Grey just sucked to fight, hitting that damn little soul ball.


How is that any worse than trying to hit Alpha's regenerating core? Both can be very annoying. Personally, it was Duo who gave me the most trouble.


Oh I HATED that core. My best bet was to use a Guts-Style with it's machine-gun feature you can use by repeatedly hitting the B button like MAD. And then hitting him with a strong chip attack when the freaking core was finally open...

... Err, where were we again? XD


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I wholeheartedly agree that the series has been going downhill, even moreso then just the net since the first 3 games. MMBN4 was the biggest letdown for me. The series felt it had taken a complete overhaul since then. I mean, take ACDC Town itself. The net is liable to change with time as much as it sees fit, but after continuing to remain the same for the first three games like a normal city would, why all the sudden move everything around? I mean, what kind of city does that? Besides that they decide after making it so that everything ties together with fairly nice detail, to up and suddenly drop Style Changes altogether and somehow introduce Double Souls. I mean, at least they explained how he got the Style Changes using a change.bat but then they don't even bother explaining how Double Souls work? And they introduced the awesome Navi Customizer in BN3 as a pretty useful device that was actually needed in some instances. Other games it's just another small add-on to have to make things a little more interesting, though that's probably more my opinion. I liked the progression of the net between the first three, how it went from being the same look in every area to adding a few more decorative features to make it feel like a part of the real world (like in BN3 where ACDC area had similar objects to it's park and likewise with the Scilabs area with it's counters and doorpanels). But I agree with Dr. Cossack that they've taken it a bit far with cyber this and that and having curses and ghosts (not like navi ghosts but the ones you have to deal with in the Undernet in BN5) and such on the net. I loved the whole idea of teamwork in the first 3 and the good/evil thing wouldn't have been so bad if it had more of an effect on the story itself rather then the gameplay or didn't just feel repetative during the 4th and especially the 5th games. BN6 I felt was a pretty decent game compared to the previous two before it, with the unfortunate fact that it ended the series for Lan and the others. It's a real kicker when you get attached to the characters just to have the series jump ahead 200 years. At least that can work with the Original and X series since they mostly consist of age-defying reploids, but it's because of the whole teamwork concept of the story that's going to make me miss all the human characters I've grown used to seeing. But yeah, I'm done ranting. :hehe:


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Originally posted by ChaosTrigger
I mean, take ACDC Town itself. The net is liable to change with time as much as it sees fit, but after continuing to remain the same for the first three games like a normal city would, why all the sudden move everything around? I mean, what kind of city does that?


Good point with the ACDC Town layout, which is another thing that didn't evolve quite right. They could have expanded the visible map area to add a few buildings, or remove a road in order to remove some useless elements. However, they went as far as mixing it all. At the very least, they were careful enough to keep Lan and Mayl's houses next to each other.

As far as I'm concerned, the true layout is the one from the first three games (and in Network Transmission), since it has all the buildings available. The updated layout overlooked the elementary school, which was a staple early on!


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Would it really have been better for the games to go past 6, Chaos Trigger? I don't see why they wouldn't have ended the series there. Dr. Wily seemed to be kind of through with the evil thing, and Dr. Regal was no longer a threat. No Gospel either... Instead of just pulling out a random new bad guy and going for a seventh game, cutting the series off was pretty justified. I mean, six games is a lot. o_o

ACDC town did sort of degrade as the games went on, but I think that it makes sense that the net evolved to contain things like trees and so forth. I like to stress that net navis weren't just for efficiency; they were made to be as entertaining as possible as well. It's only sensible that the net would be changed to be a more user-friendly interface by the addition of scenery.


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It did make for a good ending, but more or less it's not so much the fact that it ended that we won't get to see Lan and the others still alive for the next series. I'm not so much upset that the original series has ended as I am that I won't get to see all the human characters again. Not unless they find some miracle formula for allowing people to live past 200 or otherwise he pulls a Tadashi and leaves himself as data on the net or something.

And I agree with you that the net would change to be more user friendly. I'm fine with that. I think seeing trees and other such various real world items in the net gives it more feeling then it originally had. I just don't like it when suddenly normal ghosts start to appear on the net that drain your strength, or that another person from another world would be stalking a navi vampire onto the net. Things like that one guy saying a spell in the real world and it having an effect on the navi as a curse? How does that happen? It's those extra things that just feel completely unnecessary and unlogical (as far as the previous games go) that annoy me.


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It did make for a good ending, but more or less it's not so much the fact that it ended that we won't get to see Lan and the others still alive for the next series.


I don't remember anyone complaining about that when they did the transition from Classic to X, so its seems like its the same thing here, at least to me.


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I don't remember anyone complaining about that when they did the transition from Classic to X, so its seems like its the same thing here, at least to me.


I guess that's true, but then the original never really played out like an RPG that gives you what I feel is a better indepth feel for the characters. And it's main focus was solely Megaman, so being able to see another one (though I'm sure there's still quite a few people who thing the original and X are the same robot) probably had a better transitioning effect too.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Cossack
Quote:
Originally posted by Black Dranzer.exe
Grey just sucked to fight, hitting that damn little soul ball.


How is that any worse than trying to hit Alpha's regenerating core? Both can be very annoying. Personally, it was Duo who gave me the most trouble.
Actually it's very sad how I beat Alpha, I used a Wood style, maxed out the attack power, then used Grassstage as a normal chip and Undershirt as well, Under shirt makes sure I always have 1 HP and grass stage regnerates my health, meaning I can't die as the second I hit 1 HP my HP regenerates slowly and if I get hit again Undershirt kicks in again. Then I used a maxed out buster twister to get the core down then P.A.ed the hell out of the thing.


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Does undershirt work that way? I thought it was once per battle.


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Does undershirt work that way? I thought it was once per battle.


The customizer program actually does luckily enough...


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I confirm. I've used that technique for a few tricky boss battles. It works, as long as you don't face someone who enjoys breaking the floor panels too often.

Pretty sure that the thing is called "undershot", though.


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That doesn't really make sense though. I mean, I can see undershirt, having some sort of extra layer that stops a fatal blow... but undershot? It'd be the only NC block that affects the enemy Navi's ability to hit something.


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Actually it's based off a chip in BN2(I think) that allowed you to stop a fatal blow and retain 1 HP once per use. The icon of the chip was a sort of chainmail-ish shirt if I recall.


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Another thing... What's up with the ever moving SciLab? That thing moves to a new building every few months according to the games' timeline!

The first move can be explained very easily: SciLab was installed in the Government Building along with a few other administrative departments. With all the advances being made to the global network, they required more room so they got their own dedicated building. The second change can also be justified, if you forget the only few months that pass by. It's also explained in-game: in order to avoid direct attacks from criminals, they made it so that the only available entry point was through the Metroline. Of course, that one didn't work too well... (See Match's attack).

However, everything after that doesn't really made sense. One thing that could be considered is that SciLab actually consists of several buildings, between which Dr. Hikari often moves as he's needed. I don't think that this is too logical, especially since the location is always referred to as "SciLab". Yet, I can't see it any other way.


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Mega Man as a whole doesn't deal with stark realism, so SciLab doesn't have to, either.


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Well, to be honest, the whole city kinda moves around, Higsby's for example... >_>


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