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Fair warning: this is a rather lengthy post. I'm looking for feedback from the community about the possible update to MC 1.8, including what options are available to us, and I believe that some background information is required first. This isn't a vote, it's a request for feedback and ideas: any decision I take down the line will be for what I think is the best for the community.


- The current situation

Minecraft 1.8 was released over a week ago. We're currently running 1.7.10. Major updates in the past have taken anywhere from two weeks to two months to be implemented. Some of you have heard of legal troubles with the Bukkit project, which means that the standard upgrade path might not work.

As things stand right now, I have no idea if the server software we use will even be updated to Minecraft 1.8. Maybe Mojang will make a move in the coming days, and all will be fine. Perhaps not. A replacement is underway by a new team, but that will take time. Instead of simply waiting, I decided to start thinking.


- Explanation of Bukkit troubles

The goal of this explanation is to keep things simple. I might take a few shortcuts along the way, but you should be able to understand what's the current situation and how we got here.

The server is running Spigot, which is a derivative of Bukkit. Bukkit itself is a remake of sorts of Minecraft's official server, allowing the installation of plugins and giving server admins a lot more control over various settings. The large majority of servers out there run Bukkit or Spigot. Both projects are run independently from Mojang and without their assistance.

On August 21, the Bukkit team announced that they were closing the project, due to various legal grey areas and lack of support from Mojang. The same day, Mojang revealed that they actually owned Bukkit, had been for over two years, and that they would keep it active. Dinnerbone was quick to say that he'd personally prepare the 1.8 update.

On September 3, both Bukkit and Spigot's downloads were hit by a DMCA takedown by a former Bukkit developer. This person claims that Mojang tried to take ownership of his code, which the license wouldn't allow to happen, and thus that he no longer wants his work to be used. Even if he were to back down for any reason, any other developer could then make the same claim.

The end result, right now, is a possible legal battle from Mojang to fight this claim or the complete abandon of Bukkit. An alternative will obviously come up, either from Mojang itself or another group. In either case, it's going to take time. Like, several months at least to obtain something stable.


- What we lose by going 100% vanilla

We have a nearly vanilla server, with few modifications to the standard gameplay. Nonetheless, going full vanilla involves a LOT of losses. Some of these are more important than others, but it's a lot to consider:

- Chest & doors protections
- Anti-griefing protections
- Multiple worlds
- DynMap
- Chatroom integration
- Logs
- Automated whitelist system
- Automated End reset
- Achievements
- PvP arenas
- Ranks
- Quick tree felling

Due to all these, especially the anti-grief protections and logs, I feel that switching to a straight vanilla server is not an option.


- Our options

The way I see it, we have two possible paths for the time being:
- Wait it out, even if it means possibly skipping 1.8 entirely
- Launch a separate, 1.8 server to tide people over

Here are the pros and cons as I see them.


- Option 1: Wait it out

I'm very patient when it comes to games. 1.7.10 is stable. I like this game version. We have a good community, with fun events and ideas. I could continue like this without losing interest for a long time. Several of you have said before that server stability is paramount, so that everything you do can survive for a long time. That, however, doesn't apply to everyone.

While many of us are happy with the current state of things, some don't want to stay behind while other players are having fun with all the new blocks and options. That will only grow over time, with some players moving on to 1.8 or getting tired of the game entirely, with few new faces to replace them. This might lead to a slow decline of the community if it drags on for too long. That can be somewhat supplemented by running more events and contests.


- Option 2: Launch a 1.8 server

The alternative is to launch a separate, vanilla 1.8 server, with a new world, still under the Creeper's Lab umbrella. That'd give some people a chance to play the new game version as well as possibly attracting new players. While I still expect the majority of people to remain on the main server due to all their supplies and builds being there, some might appreciate the new outlet to try something else.

Eventually, when the main server is ready to be updated to whatever, the vanilla server's map would be added as an extra world, reachable through the TransHub much like Gondwana and Avalonia. To keep that world interesting and different, and to line up with some requests I've received, I'm considering setting it to hard mode with mob griefing enabled. This is a change from Gondwana as the latter uses the crazy amplified world type and no mob damage.

A major downside, from my point of view, is that this would create a rift in the community. With no way for people on 1.8 to chat with those outside of the game, we end up with two groups of people who can only meet up in the chatroom or the forums. Many don't mind visiting the chatroom nowadays, which might alleviate things a bit. On the other hand, having more players in total, even if split up across two versions, might be better in the long run.


Of course, all of the above points could be moot if this somehow gets resolved in the coming days or weeks. Maybe Mojang will make a move. Maybe the Spigot team will take over and release a full 1.8 server. The more days passes, however, the less positive I am about a nice, clean, quick resolve. That's why I've started considering alternatives.

Note that what the rumors say about Microsoft and Mojang won't change any of my plans for the time being.

Thoughts welcome!


The admin formerly known as Dr. Cossack.

I post musings, images and nonsense on Tumblr! I play games on Steam! Add me on either/both, and don't hesitate to ask if you want to play something with me!

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Staff Backer Masterlink
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In my opinion, we're currently fine where we are for now. New mobs and blocks, albeit exciting, shouldn't cause a jeopardization of our current protections and plugins. No real point in new blocks to build with, if a new player is just gonna run in and steal it from hard-work to build it.

Also, in light of Bukkit's DMCA, Spigot ALREADY has a patch system and has moved away from using copyrighted code. Simply patching the version they state will put us in line ready for 1.8 spigot. As for if the Bukkit Plugins will still work with the new spigot, I cannot say. I'd have to lean toward them working, as that's a major part of a custom server code to begin with, and as long as the plugins do not require parts of the copyrighted code, should be unaffected.

The Spigot binary update patcher can be found here
While looking at this page, I also noticed a protocol patch for spigot, that'll allow 1.8 clients to connect to a 1.7.10 server found here.

The other option to look into would be Forge's new answer SPONGE.

But back to the basic question: I'd say currently stay where we are and look into options in the future after testing what's CURRENTLY offered to see the best course of action. Personally, I'd test the new Spigot patching system in a test server and maybe migrate to that to solve the updating issue. Since Dinnerbone has promised to update bukkit to 1.8, it'll at least get us that far.

"Nathan Adams @Dinnerbone

To make this clear: Mojang owns Bukkit. I'm personally going to update Bukkit to 1.8 myself. Bukkit IS NOT and WILL NOT BE the official API.
4:41 AM - 21 Aug 2014"


Edited by Masterlink on September 13, 2014 at 8:55:50


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Option 3 - Make Kagato write a new server program, "Kaggit", that will integrate with all the mods you use to do the French Vanilla thing.

Seriously, though, waiting for 1.8 will be fine for our community I think. A month or two should solidify a timeline. AND, an added bonus might be that we don't get as much riff-raff floating through. "I can't play 1.8? I'm going to find another server to grief!!!".

I'm fine with waiting, but I also have a heavy work schedule over the next month or two so my playing time will be limited anyway.

Staff Backer Doctacosa
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Quote from post #235013:
Originally posted by Masterlink
Since Dinnerbone has promised to update bukkit to 1.8, it'll at least get us that far.


The catch is, that was before the DMCA takedowns. They can't release said update until they clear the situation on that front, and I wouldn't be surprised if Mojang decided to say "screw this" and focused on the official API for 1.9 instead... which is obviously months away at the very least.

And let's be honest, anything involving Sponge + required plugins won't be ready until the new year at least, at least not in a stable format.


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I post musings, images and nonsense on Tumblr! I play games on Steam! Add me on either/both, and don't hesitate to ask if you want to play something with me!

"There are only three things certain in life: Death, taxes, and Teej's obsessions." ~ RisingDragon (still true in 2019!)

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My thoughts are we should launch the separate server. For now. For one it gives everyone a fair, and fresh start. Also it lets people continue where they left off once it gets integrated into the main server (that's if Doc does it) I think that it could be a great thing to keep people coming back!
-Mikey


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Personally I'm fine with waiting for a non-vanilla 1.8 release. I mean, it took how long after 1.7 before there was even a non-Dev build of Bukkit? Granted from the exchange between both parties, it didn't sound like the Bukkit contributors really got much help from Mojang to get things hammered out sooner. Granted I'd of thought there'd be more news by now after all the drama started, but I guess the Microsoft rumor (of which I have no doubt that there are discussions between both parties going on) likely sidetracked things.

The new blocks and mobs are nice and all and I could really use them, but unfortunately all the benefits and additions are, imho, grossly overshadowed by the massive middle finger given to players with the butchering of the enchanting system. I'd of been happy if they just tweaked it (i.e. How about I get something BESIDES Knockback 2 for 30 levels?) instead of rebuilding it from ground up when there are thousands of other long-standing issues they could spend their time on, like say, I dunno, BOATS!

Honestly, if a separate 1.8 vanilla instance were to be put online, I'd still spend all of my time on 1.7.10. If I want to experience 1.8, I'll just spawn a Single Player world to fart around in.

Quote from post #235013:
Originally posted by MasterlinkWhile looking at this page, I also noticed a protocol patch for spigot, that'll allow 1.8 clients to connect to a 1.7.10 server found here.

That honestly tends to be more trouble than it's worth. Since the server is still running on 1.7.10 code/logic, clients tend to have various hickups when they think they should be able to do something and the server says "Does not compute!". It was a nice option to have before Mojang tweaked the launcher and made it easier for those who didn't comprehend how to manually launch different jar versions. Lord knows I got tired of folks always going "I updated and now I can't connect, how come?!".

Edited by kagato on September 14, 2014 at 2:32:34


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I too am fine with waiting for non-vanilla 1.8 and have already spawned an individual world for playing around. Don't need a Creeper's Lab one unless it would meet long term plans (eg. a new portaled planned world).


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I too have already created a 1.8 world in single player, and I can wait until a new update to our home world to go explore and find the new blocks and temples (it would be a different experience to me to find these in another server, I want the feeling of expanding and finding hidden treasures in our home).
But it would be very interesting and cool to finally add another world we could enter in the transite station. Also to have a completely new world to explore and develope.
So I guess that I would like to see a new to explore but if I would be to much of a drain on resources for the server I don't mind it staying the same.

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im ok with waiting.

I dont think 1.8 is that serious
:D


<Ash3

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Either way, I am fine. 1.8 is fairly buggy as of late, but still stable enough to run. I would prefer both really

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So basically I'm just being a huge baby about it. I just wanna continue building my new place, but I can honestly do without 1.8 on CL. I can always quickly switch to 1.8 and play if I really want to.

The stability really is a great thing, save for stuff like boats. But uhh.. Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with waiting or a fresh server! That'd be both fun and keep me, more or less, on CL more regularly in the mean time!


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