I\'m from france, and I don\'t hate the president, the person I hate is the french president for not going to war against the Iraque with the US! Now everyone hates that country, even people sometimes at school say that I suck because I come from \"France\":madgo:, you guys/girls don\'t know how much curse words I\'m thinking about right now:mad:

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by zeusgamer00]

My question is: what justifies the American\'s hatred of Bush? We can prove they hate him, that\'s easy to see. Just look at the people who plan to run against him. But why do we dump everything on Bush? Nobody is perfect. Nobody could ever become a perfect leader, Bush included. I happen to like Bush. That doesn\'t mean I think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I\'m not saying Bush can do no wrong. I\'m saying that everyone is blaming Bush without proper reason!

1) Debt from Iraq and Aghfantism wars
2) Where the hell is Bin Laden?
3) He\'s been awfully religious.
4) He rejected the kyoto proctol (probably rejected it because it hurts the company\'s money. Rejecting it actually hurts the earth more.)
5) He seems to be discriminated against people with different lifestyles
6) War is more interesting than fixing the problems here in America.

Here\'s your damn reasons. Probably should clarify them next time. Argh.

Zeus- I was referring to adults, but damn, the fact that people dislike you just because you\'re from France is just wrong. (Hell, I\'m kicking people in the face if they say \"Freedom Fries\") The president probably had too much to lose with the war in Iraq.

This thread makes my head hurt.

I\'m not going to comment on this argument, it\'s useless and pointless. What I will sa, though, is lets see how the Americans vote in to be presedent next time and see what happens.

Also, is war really what you want, zeusgamer00? If it is, I pity you. I pity your poor soul which has never yet got to see the terrible shadow which is war. The do not see what lies ahead when sun has failed and moon is dead.

I\'m not saying I wanted a war, I was just made because the french president went against the US. I would never want a war to happen:madgo:

Oh! I forgot something! Did you know that Saddam turned a gun on the head teacher at PRIMARY school (ages 4-11) when he got expelled?

You kiding, what a nut:lol:

You should be greatful you didn\'t go to war.

Saddam\'s an evil sicko.:eek:

Yes. it is said that America is on such tense relations with other countries. But I don\'t think anyone wants an international war. There would be no reasoning behind it. I believe the war on Saddam Hussain was justified. However, the minute we go to war with anyone whom I do not feel is justified, that is when I\'ll stop defending Bush\'s actions.

And I\'m not saying Bush is an unequalled extraordinary man! I\'m trying to say that he\'s doing the best he can in office. I don\'t think anyone else would have any more success in office right now. I am for Bush because he seems to know right from wrong, for the most part at least.

Don\'t bust Bush if you couldn\'t do any better. You can rant all you want, but until the criticism helps anybody, it won\'t be important. Until you come up with a solution, blasting Bush won\'t be worth a hill of beans. I\'d like to see anyone here, or anywhere else for that matter, go up there and do any better. Sure, Bush may be wrong sometimes, but what if you were up there in his seat? People would hate you just as much as Bush, simply because you were the easiest one to blame. So, until you can do any better, you don\'t deserve to bash Bush for all of this.

You have the freedom to speak out against the president, and I don\'t care how much you exercise this right. Just consider his position before you do.

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by AimMan v2.5]

I know, I know...I hope I will never have to go to war!

If the world didn\'t suck, we\'d all fall off.

True.:lol:

Basically, the world is not perfect, and I don\'t believe we can make it that way. We just have to do what we can and deal with it.

I hope they\'ll find Osama Bin Laden, and make him pay for 9/11! Check this out too, the design for the new twin towers:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3757111/

If you don\'t want a war, you\'re against the US, though, so what are you talking about?

I think he meant that he didn\'t want an international war.

The new design for the twin towers looks good.:D

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by AimMan v2.5]

Exacly!so did anyone see the new design for the world trade center!

You got ideas for fixing those problems? No? Then Stop complaining, if you can\'t think of a solution, then whose to say the president can?

Yes, that\'s exactly right.

Clear and to the point. Maybe I shouldn\'t use so many big words.:(

Yes, by not doing the war in first place and fix the damn problems in America. Moron.

More name calling.
If America had not started the war, would not Iraq just keep Saddam in power? If he\'d stayed in power that long, what was to keep his bloodline from ruling it for decades? Iraq would have caved in on itself. If we even had a half-excuse, that was reason justified enough. No one else was going to help them, and by all this, Saddam might have stayed in power. It\'s justice with profit, you see.
Now if just the Iraqis can pick themselves up...

FIXING THE PROBLEMS IN AMERICA!? What do you think I\'ve been talking about? We have to fix the problems AS WELL AS POSSIBLE! It\'s impossible for anyone to completely fix America! Why must you persistantly attack Bush on not being able to fix it? No one can, because there is no perfect government! You\'re simply not going to listen to me, are you?

Alright, let\'s use our imagination for a second. You are in office. What are you going to do to fix our problems, huh? Think about it! You can\'t solve them any more efficiently than he can! You keep saying he has to fix it, but you never state how! You have no right to argue unless you have a solution!

And if you thought you were really persuasive and you were sure of yourself, you wouldn\'t need to call me anything. You could answer my questions, instead of calling me a moron. This is shallow and unworthy of a true debater\'s time.

Wow, what a crapfest.

I just think that the war stuff could\'ve waited. Of course, people think we\'ve already waited long enough, blah blah. That Iraq had big scary weapons..but they didn\'t. If we had waited though (we as in the USA), perhaps we could\'ve went through a more diplomatic approach as Necro was talking about. But nah.. And oh, whoever said that a justifiable reason for going to war was oil... How is that justifiable? I\'m going to kill your family so I can take the resources for mine. Is that justifiable?

I\'m glad to see people that don\'t have blind faith in the guy in charge though. \"He did this and this and this wrong, but he\'s the prez so he\'s awesome patriot 4 life!\" Don\'t get me started on n00b patriot yuppies, either.

Yes, I agree, \"he did this and this wrong\". I\'ve said that 2 or 3 times. I\'m just saying that no on else would be better there and that no form of government would be more efficient.

A lot of people her like to rant, don\'t they? I am probably included in the bunch.

I think you missed the point of what I said. Perhaps indirectly I promoted a heartless approach to looking at the situation, but that wasn\'t what I was intending. Iraq isn\'t the only country in the world that has a dictator that commits horrible deeds to his own people. Yet, you rarely see people care about people in those countries, but they claim to care about the Iraqi people. It\'s dictated by the media. If the media hadn\'t showed so much of Saddam, no one would have cared about the Iraqi people, just like they don\'t care about those suffering from dictatorish ruled counties that aren\'t Iraq. Unless the United States decides to go help other countries in similar situations, I can\'t believe that the United States truly intended to get rid of Saddam because they felt bad for the Iraqi people. It\'s well known that the United States doesn\'t like Saddam at all.

As for how I\'d feel if I was in the Iraqi\'s shoes while Saddam ruled, the answer would most likely be unhappy, afraid. Unless I was part of his inner circle, but I doubt that\'d be the situation. However, I can\'t let any personal feelings on that kind of situation cloud my judgement and support a war when this reason behind it was the last to pop up after the others didn\'t hold up.

If I missed the point there and what you were trying to get across how would I feel if I was in that situation and someone said no one should care about how my life is going because it doesn\'t affect them, I wouldn\'t hold it against them. While not on the same scale, everyone has problems. It\'s unrealistic to expect people to care about something that doesn\'t affect them.

While I don\'t agree that the war was justified, I don\'t think it really matters at this point because what\'s done is done.

Also, I don\'t believe oil was the only other reason for the Iraq war. The United States hasn\'t been able to get ahold of Osama Bin-Laden, and by going after Saddam it drew away from the fact that the hunt for Bin-Laden so far has been a failure.

As for the oil reason, I can blame Bush. You don\'t attack someone when they have something you want or feel you need and they won\'t give it to you. If the United States was in an oil crisis, then perhaps they should try funding or increase funding for research for alternatives to oil for generating power. But Bush of course wouldn\'t support that.. =P

Also, I\'m saddened that you\'d think I\'d abuse my power given to me to try to benefit the board over someone disagreeing with me. Anyone is free to disagree with me, it doesn\'t say in the rules that you have to.




Were you born in France, then moved to the United States or do you still live there?

As always, that\'s a very logical observation, Necro. You\'re right, it is unrealistic to expect all to care. It is a futile hope, as is that of a perfect government.

If America did go to war only for oil, then I am seriously angered. If such a thing is true, then all my debating has been useless. I sincerely think, however, that there were many reasons to go to war other than oil. I don\'t believe, honestly, that anyone with any good in their heart would attack a nation just for it\'s oil. I believe it was a matter of liberty.

Eventually, we may confront other communists, or the people may rebel, or any number of other possibilites. But, until then, we will just watch and wait to see what develops. As I\'ve stated, no solution will be perfect.:(

, I assume our dislike of him is linked to the outcome of the first Gulf War, but looking back on what you said, It makes more sense, I see what you were trying to say, that people shouldn\'t even bother to pretend, if you truly care, great, but if not, then don\'t bother...am I right?



True as that is, you have to admit, the Iraqis are kind of happy to be free of him, so...even though we entered the war for the wrong reasons, some good came of it. It hasn\'t been a total failure IMO



You didn\'t miss the point at all, and yes, unrealistic as it may be, it is still nice when people truly care about things that would never affect them in the slightest, yet do their best for its wellbeing.



Very true, you can\'t change the past, unless you\'re a member of the CT cast



Valid, in fact, so valid that I believe it. Although, the back-up plan wasn\'t going too well either Cruel Irony. Then we caught Saddam...Lucky Break!



Most of the oil in the world comes from countries like Iraq, middle eastern countries. And while no proof of WoMD have been found, I wouldn\'t put it past Hussein. Oil is a deadly trump card, are you really comfortable that Saddam has that card? About the Alternate source, I\'ve been wondering about that too...



Well, I meant that my post could\'ve been considered the basis for a flame war, or a huge fight...



He made a post about being made fun of for his French background, so I\'d say it\'s safe to assume that he\'s in the US now.


BTW AirMan, how exactly did Bush cheat in the election?

[Edited on 12/21/2003 by Mega X.exe]

[Edited on 12/21/2003 by Mega X.exe]

You\'d be hardpressed to find anyone who really cares. I care about people who are stuck with people in charge who /suck/. But the general population would probably not have much of a clue or just be like, \"Oh, well, it could be worse...\" It may seem that there\'s more people who do care, but show me that. I see people in the newspaper constantly complaining about foreigners who come into the country just for a job.
*Shrugs*

Maybe I\'m just so cynical because of what I\'ve seen. I\'d be impressed if someone my age wasn\'t so cynical because of what\'s happened in the world... I suppose I need to learn how to hope or something, but still... *shakes her head* I don\'t have much hope for America.

Are you saying that Bush is the most efficiant presedent possible? You make it sound like no-one in the world can do a better job! We\'ll see. We\'ll see who gets elected. We\'ll se where the US\'s loyalties lie. We\'ll see how good a job they do.

Not really. I guess I was a little unclear there, Airman. What I meant was, he\'s doing a fair job with what he has to deal with right now. I\'m no prophet, so I can\'t tell what will happen in the next election. If Bush is out, maybe the new president will do better. I can\'t read the future, but if Bush is out, I sincerely hope the next president will be successful. I\'m not meaning to deface Bush, I simply mean that if he IS replaced, I hope it is by someone good.

I wasn\'t just talking to you. I was talking to a lot of other people, too.

To be honest, I wouldn\'t normally care about it except that your prime minister does whatever Bush does without question. That will be his downfall.