If you\'ve noticed my signature or not, it says something about truth.

Let me explain.

Truth can only exist through a universal fact.

1+1=2

We hold this as a universal truth. Why not fact? Because very few actually go through the arithmetic to find this. We simply KNOW that 1 and 1 makes 2.

I am (X) years old.

No matter what X is, it will be a positive and universal fact, because it will be true on the entire planet, which is the limits to UNIVERSAL.

However, what if you were able to make everyone believe that 1 and 1 makes 3?

Preposterous, I know, but what if? Granted, it\'s wrong, but it would then be classified as a universal truth. It would then be known as a fact.

Until some \'genius\' came along and realized it wasn\'t truth.

So I\'ve established that Fact requires a universal truth.

But what about a Truth which requires a universal fact?

I already explained it. Since it will be universal no matter what, that one thing, added to another thing makes two things is a UNIVERSAL FACT, it can be classified as a universal truth.


I know this is confusing...maybe I messed up somewhere...

Oh well.

Just tell me what you think.

Thats as crazy as when...someone, i forget his name, said that everyone was a figment of his imagination, im going to ask you the same thing I asked him.. are you on some kind of drugs, or are you just insane?

Post redacted

I could put more thought into this, but I\'m not really in the mood to right now.

*shrug*

This is somewhat related to my personal attitude towards religion; something is only true when you believe it to be, and something is only untrue when you believe it to be. Like you say, a fact is awidely accepted truth among the world. So yes, in a way it\'s universal.

But..

I fail to see the connection between these statements. Some clarification noting where you were going and trying to weave them together would be nice. Wow, that was a good sentence. Anyways, back to topic.




I can\'t follow what you are trying to say. It would be nice if you could word this out more clearly. I have an idea but I\'m also not entirely sure.

Or maybe I just need sleep. *shrug*

Post redacted

[quote]Originally posted by WindRider~
I beleive that there is no truth, as truth differs from person to person. Truth, is basically defined as what is real, but everyone\'s reality is different, Kei. While opinions intersect here and there, the whole of our beliefs and thoughts are never completely the same, whether I compare you and I, or You and any one of a million other people. You look at someone, and see what you see, and I look at them, and see something... someONE completely different.

Truth is reality, reality is what one percieves, what one percieves, is never what another percieves in their reality.

I don\'t know if I\'m talking in circles or what, but I\'m done for now.

EDIT: In short, there is no Universal Fact.

[Edited on 2/21/2004 by WindRider~] [/quote]

I agree with you completely on that there, honestly. It makes alot of sense, and goes into the larger picture, because everyone only really sees what they see. You can\'t really define something as an Universal Fact if you honestly don\'t know what everyone thinks; and some people will argue against widely accepted facts such as the earth being round, and will refuse to believe otherwise.

Though, that\'s not to say an universal fact can\'t exist. The sky generally is blue. I\'m sure any person who isn\'t colorblind would honestly agree that that statement is true.

What makes the sky blue, uncle Necro..? What makes the grass green, what makes the birds sing..?

But well, isn\'t it factual that I (Hollow Zero Torment a.k.a. Catastrophe Manson a.k.a. Clifford) am typing this post right now? Isn\'t it factual that I\'m going to post it and you guys are gonna see it?

1. The gasses which the sky is made of
2. Pigments
3. Air from their lungs forced through their throughts (yes they have 2 sound chambers that enables them to sing 2 notes at once)

Sorry hollow, just HAD to, it was to easy.

Back to topic:

Is this thought really insane? How can you be sure that all others exist? For all I know, all of you could just be an illusion created by my mind, thet none of you are alive but just a response to an action I executed. The thing is truth is what we preceeve it to be. Truth is inherited since your pairents and others told you through trial an error what is right and what is wrong.

I see truth as more of a way to handle your current situation. If you don\'t follow the pattern people don\'t understand you, an example is someone thinking 1+1=3 (like kei said), others thinking the truth is 1+1=2 wil get confused and an argument will arise. (not best example but I\'m not very good at explaining...). But truth and fact are two VERY seperate things. Fact is what is, willest truth is what people tell you.

:mad:: \"You don\'t exist!\"
:cool:: \"Excuse me, but I think therefore I am.\"
:madgo:: \"No, I think therefore you are! Reality is what I make of it!\"