I myself am a devout Christian, however, if this offends anyone who isn\'t a Christian...I don\'t care.

Get it? Got it? Good!

Now I sit me down in school

Where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God

Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow

Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That\'s no offense; it\'s a freedom scene.

The law is specific, the law is precise.

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all

In silence alone we must meditate,

God\'s name is prohibited by the state.

We\'re allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.

They\'ve outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the \'unwed daddy,\' our Senior King.

It\'s \"inappropriate\" to teach right from wrong,

We\'re taught that such \"judgments\" do not belong..

We can have condoms and birth controls,

Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,

No word of God must reach this crowd.

It\'s scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school\'s a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen

Post redacted

It\'s kind of weird really. I mean, that\'s the religion this country was founded on and now it\'s the most hated one in the country. Go figure.

I suppose part of the reason is that Christians believe in the existence of good and evil. That\'s not a well embraced belief.

I am a \"little Christ\" or christian for those who don\'t speak middle-eastern languages. I don\'t care how other people took it. That poem is sweet! I want to use it! Where did you get it from?

I got it in an email

I plan on using it.

Wind, we need to talk...

1) At what point is it intollerable? I really don\'t understand. Was it bad that Mega posted? I thought it would be intollerable if someone replied in a offensive manner. At what point is wrong to express yourself and where someone stands? I mean, it\'s a post. It\'s not like we\'re televangelizing via internet. We\'re not trying to convert anyone here.

2)

Whoa. That kind of hit home there. I don\'t represent black people, but let me tell you why there should be some type of \"reparation.\"

The ancestors worked and got no pay. The owners didn\'t work and prospered off it. That money and profit was passed down to generations, which leads us to today. Most rich people today are not rich because they earned it, but because the profit and other business things were passed down from their parents, which got it from their parents and so on...

My point is that some people in America are rich because of \"our ancestors.\" Now, how that ties in with relgion wanting power, I don\'t know. You need to fill me in on that.

There are ppl who give christians a bad name and unfortunetaly, when one of those ppl say something offensive to another religion. All christians are labled as haters.

Same with 9/11. When the american ppl learned that the ppl who hikacked the plane were arabs, most americans said that all arabs were responsible. It\'s like one\'s actions reflects an entire community\'s ideals, which is not true at all.

Post redacted

Cool. I\'m glad that\'s straightened out. I will admit that there may be people who want reparations just for money, I\'ll give you that. And I am tired of people who want to hit other people over the head with the bible or any other religious scripture. I tend not to bring up my religion first because I don\'t want people to be annoyed by it, which doesn\'t take much to do nowadays.

Air is right. After 9/11, everybody thinks that Muslims (spelling?) are all quick to go to Allah, which isn\'t the case. The ones that caused 9/11 were a denomination of Muslim, just how there are denominations of Christianity.

Religion doesn\'t belong in school.

Just because the US president is a crazy \"God spoke to me\" Christian, all the other crazy Christians are trying to get him to change everything to their needs because they know he\'ll do it.

Abortion, gay marriage..now praying in schools.

Yeah, I know a few good christians but they sure are few and far between. Two of them are quite sweet and never have given me a lecture about going to hell. The other one did.

Actually, the founding fathers were crazy \"God spoke to me\" Christians too.

That\'s actually true. Patrick Henry basically stated in his speech concerning the independence that God would be on their side if they rebelled.

No wonder America is like it is today.

I am what I like to call a rational christian. Those, you will go to hell unless you join my religion, christians, suck. Never try to force your religion on others, hell, that just averts people from religion. All faiths, even atheists, are equal in my eyes. Anyway, back on topic. I do not think that prayer should be made mandatory in schools, few people do, but I think the silent moment idea is fair to all. But when they ban all forms of prayer, students getting together to pray, reading of the bible, mentioning the name of God, Etc, that is going too far.

Oh yeah, I forgot, I\'m a crazy Christian too. Guess that makes me a moron. Thanks for showing me the light Hollow :rolleyes:

I can agree with what you\'re saying here. Now, this doesn\'t have anything to do with my country as I\'m not American, but people should be able to express their spirituality as long as they\'re not harassing others while doing it.

Though, you know, I like France\'s idea it implemented in it\'s schools, banning children from wearing anything religious. Might sound rude to some, but honestly, I like it. Instead of people getting to know you by your faith, all the kids just get to be children. I think that\'d lower discrimination somewhat.

As for christianity being the religion the United States was founded on, well, that\'s just a classic battle of conservatism versus liberalism. Societies constantly evolve over time, and what was accepted yesterday might not be tomorrow. Figuratively speaking. People can either embrace the changes(liberal) or try to hold on to the past(conservative). But you know, you can\'t expect people to join one side simply because christianity was the religion your nation was founded on.

As for reparations, I personally think it\'s a stupid idea. The familes that descended from those who made profits off of black people working for them don\'t deserve to be punished for what their ancestors did. It doesn\'t matter how much you might dislike what happened, the families of today don\'t deserve to be punished. And to give a black man a large sum of money because his ancestors got treated unfairly? Why on earth would he deserve that? Did the white family make profits off of his hard work? No. What happened in the past is unfortunate, I won\'t deny that, but giving the black people of today money for it isn\'t going to change what did happen.

religion is a touchy thing. in my opinion, as long as you believe something, anything, of a higher power, there\'s hope. but life can\'t be based entirely on religion, I think. I live in the Bible Belt, so yes I am a christian, and yes it was by choice. that being said, people in my town are in an uproar when they hear about anything to do with schools and religion. the \"Under God\" topic, no praying in schools, all that got a huge reaction from everyone around me. Quite frankly, if you don\'t want to pray in school, fine. let those of us who do pray, so long as it doesn\'t directly affect what we\'re being taught.

As for reparation, yes, I feel bad for the African Americans, and yes what was done was wrong, but there is a policy now. if decendants of slaveowners repaid every african american who\'s ancestors were inslaved, then we as america have to go down the line and pay back every Indian who was inslaved, every person who\'s ancestors we ridiculed during war, all the way back to caucajuns repaying other caucajuns for enslaving serfs and peasants back in midieval times. now, on top of all of that, consider how slave-owners got the idea for slavery: the leaders in Africa originally were selling off their own people, caucajuns only started taking by force after Africa\'s leaders stopped supplying. I appologize if you are upset, but if you want to be repaid, go ask the decendants of the leaders for your money.

[Edited on 7/7/04 by Serpentarius]

Necro, liberalism and conservativism aren\'t as simple as that.

Conservatives believe in the existence of evil in the world while liberals try and sya that that\'s an old way of thinking no longer accepted.

They believe in peace through pacifisim. Nice idea, but it doesn\'t work.

I was speaking about the terms in general. Traditionally speaking, the term conservative refers to those who prefer to stay the same, to not change unless it\'s a return to a traditional method. Liberals on the other hand embrace change, they think that there\'s better ways of doing things than the current way. The difference in beliefs dates back to the French Revolution.

What you said only furthers what I\'ve said, but it cannot stand alone as the difference between conservatives and liberals because that\'s only a fraction of the difference.

I really don\'t understand the whole conservative mentality that alot of Americans have that changing how your country works is a bad thing, either. The United States itself was originally a liberal nation, and had it not had new idea\'s they\'d still be a part of the English Empire. I\'m not saying that American Indepedence was caused by Conservatism vs Liberalism, no. But the way the country was formed was rather liberal. When the United States was formed, monarchies still dominated the global community and republics, let alone a democracies, were very liberal. People will always change.

yeah I\'m a christain I don\'t care what other people think of it anyone try looking on the bottom of a In and out burger cup on the bottom is a book from the Bible Jhon:3:16

In the case of this \"crazy christian\" discussion, I would like to quote a little saying wich I find very usefull:

Most of the things (problems?) mentioned here is more or less caused by generalization. If two christians go rampant does not mean the remaining 50 will do the same thing. 9/11 is a good example of this (as mentioned) as most people started suspecting arab\'s and such. Another example is the US president. Speaking on behalf of the country as he prays to god.

I am pretty much an atheist, and I see religion more as a form of advice other than a way of life. Religion can be a very powerfull obsession and some run their entire life based on it. Banning prair in school might seem harsh, but what do you do when that one \"bad seed\" comes along?

Every time religion is mentioned there\'s a huge tention, just look at this topic For everyone to be happy, someone must sacrefice something. You could let religion run free and let everybody know what you beleeve and what others don\'t. Or you could try not to mention it. None of thease options seem fair and is precisely what generalization is all about. Saying that there is only one or the other is neglecting the fact that some can tolerate others religions.

This problem will most likely never be solved though. the best you can do is accsept the fact that others might not think as you do.

As for reparation, I agree with the others. Getting money from the ancestors of rich people is a bad exuse for lazyness. If I were asked to pay a huge bill for something my grandpairents did, what would I do? I don\'t own squat. I would be living on debt my whole life if I was to pay that kind of money. Of course, I realise that some might moneyproblems, but this is not the way to solve the problem. I support Wind\'s suggestion of a school fund to solve this, even though I hardly doubt it would solve things...

You\'re welcome, Mega X. *bows head*

That\'s a good quote, Snakeman. The thing that gets me about some Christians (I\'ll bold it so no one will get spazzy) is that they think they\'re the \"right\" religion, the \"true\", the \"only\". So of course their types of prayer and the like should be accepted into our public schools. What about the Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and hell..even Wiccans?

\"Quiet time\" or whatever the hell they disguise prayer as now..we needed that in kindergarten, sure. But I don\'t see the point of 16 year olds doing it. School is FER LERNING!

And hey, you guys say \"God is everywhere\" so why do you need quiet to pray? Just shut your eyes, say your prayer to yourself and get back to work. No need to interuppt school for it.

According to Amendment I, we should be able to pray in school. Not when the teacher is talking of course.

I don\'t go to a public school. I have friends who do though. I mean, not being able to even say the G-word? That infringes on the rights of Christians. Of course, no one cares about our rights.

But that\'s my point, you ARE allowed to pray in school..just silently to yourself, and I\'m sure you can say \'amen\' quietly outloud without getting sent to detention or anything.

We have silent prayer in church all the time (I\'ve been to protestant and..I think the other church was Catholic..because we drink the grape juice and eat the wafers. I went to bible school for a few years at the Protestant, and I go on Easter to the Catholic one with my grandparents if they\'re here.) so..I don\'t see why you can\'t do the same in school without anyone knowing. Hell, do it when you\'re done a quiz before everyone else is, and it\'s nice and silent in the class. *shrug*

And oh, you don\'t even go to public school? So you don\'t know what it\'s like there, you are just hearing from friends and assuming things.

But the \'not caring about our rights\' thing sounds like the arguements made at Neopets over not being able to put anything political or religious on the site. \"Proud\" (or maybe I should say rulebreaking) Christians have put their Jesus and God sigs everyplace, and they get warnings. They of course get pissed that they\'re being treated this way..but hey you dumbasses! It states in the RULES that you cannot have anything dealing with religion anywhere on Neopets.

They do that to prevent fights.. They do these things to keep the place friendly. I\'m sure they want to do the same things for schools too. I surely wouldn\'t someone judging me for praying to a certain god. It especially must be terrible to be a Muslim nowadays in a group of \"nuke the ragheads\" Christians..

So yeah, that\'s the point there. And I think Snakeman made that point too. \"The best you can do is accept the fact that others might not think as you do.\"

If I was still in school, I\'d tolerate Christian prayer as long as all religions were allowed to pray to whatever god they\'re praying to, and I was still allowed to leave \"under God\" out of the Pledge without getting a stoning. Would want things to be fair.