I slap on my "NERD RAGE" hat and talk about why Mega Man 9 deserves to be more than a downloadable game. Warning: contains profanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN35VSCYXmk

Edited by The Helldragon on August 16, 2008 at 17:55:38.

You make good points, but I think that the main reason that it's a DLC title is because it was designed as an NES title. It's not a game with a budget on a Hollywood scale -- it's just an 8-bit platformer.

A game like Oblivion, for example, has such a staggering amount of content that it couldn't possibly be offered as a DLC title. But a game like Mega Man 9 would only take up a fraction of a fraction of the available space on a 360 dvd (or even LESS space on a Blu-Ray).

I think the choice to not waste money on publishing it as a disc-based game when it can thrive perfectly well on a download service is simple math -- they're going to turn a bigger profit if they save the money they'd use on disc production.

And the reason that MM9 is 8-bit to begin with is because Capcom is listening to their fanbase; they're hearing people saying that 2 is their favorite game in the series, and how they decreased in quality from one to the next -- making another 32-bit Mega Man or, God forbid, a 3D one, is a dangerous step...instead of experimenting with new tweaks in the formula, it seems that Capcom is just giving the fans of the earlier Mega Man games what they've been asking for for years. And it just so happens that it fits on a download service, it's too small to bother putting it on discs.

All of your points are true. So you know what that means? Mega Man 9 is exclusively a fan wank. Rather than try to bring it back to mainstream, they're limiting it to the fans, rehashing an NES-style title rather than evolve it to bring it to more people. This means that Capcom is content with remakes rather than innovation because fans will usually just lop it up.

Does attempts at innovation always succeed? No. But it gets you more fans and respect. That's why I follow Platinum Games, formerly Clover Studios-it's clear they care about creativity in their games.

By downloading Mega Man 9, that tells Capcom that it's alright to take Mega Man further. They've actually shown interest in releasing more original Mega Man games if Mega Man 9 is successful. Whether they venture into new territory or stick to original concept as much as possible, is unknown.

This is what Inafune has to say about "innovation":

According to franchise creator Keiji Inafune, the simple fun of a classic Mega Man game "doesn't fit into the grandiose and expansive world that the consumer gaming industry has become, and so you have to make games that match the current expectations." He said pushing for the creation of a Mega Man in the style of the original "would be quickly criticized for things like being simplistic, outdated, or too expensive", thus making it "too difficult" to develop such games in the "current climate." He then goes on to say that the rise of retrogame services like Nintendo's Virtual Console allowed the development team to put together Mega Man 9.

What I firmly believe, a game doesn't have to be ground breaking in the innovation department to be enjoyable. If a game is enjoyable, that's all that matters. I mean, I'd like to see a full console Mega Man game release, utilizing today's technology too, and I can see somewhere along the lines of the Wii that Mega Man can set the standards of 3rd person platforming-shooter for a whole new generation. But once you start picking apart a franchise's roots, "forcing" it to evolve, things can go wrong. Yeah, it's nice to try new things, but it doesn't mean that it will be any better. It's what people value, and the original Mega Man, especially on the NES, is where most of Mega Man's value comes from.

However, nothing is wrong with releasing a simplistic console game. Look at Mario Galaxy. True to it's roots, yet adds new elements to the gaming industry i.e: gravity in platforming. Plus it has a perfect blend of fun and challenge for both new and casual gamers, as well as for the core gamers. Of course, that maybe a bad example since Mario has such a large fanbase, he gets an easy ride and has low expectations. But part of that comes from the simplistic and accessible gameplay the Mario series is known for(as well as visually appealing, compelling artwork, and distinguishable characters, but that's another story).

I think that would be the best approach for Mega Man. Nothing too over-the-top, consistent with the rest of the series, and keep the expectations low. People also need to be reminded that despite how much Mega Man has changed over the years, he is still an integral part of gaming history. I think Mega Man 9 might just make people do just that. With the retro style gameplay, it already stands out among other franchises and is creating lots of hype.

I agree with you when you say Mega Man deserves better. If you're talking about the original, however I think it's best Mega Man, considering how long it's been since there's been a sequel, maybe Capcom is warranted in taking this easier approach.

Maybe we should wait and see how things go after Mega Man 9. After all, it will undeniably be a short game, and people will probably want more sooner than later, so Capcom can take that to the bank.

I'll be honest with you: I don't buy that at all. Inafune remarked that replicating the style of the original would be criticized in these modern times. This is because there is no effort to revise Mega Man as anything but the style of the original. See, if Capcom was a company with a trend for innovation and change, and decided to release a retro Mega Man game, I'd buy this argument. However, Capcom is more focused on rehashes than anything else. The only reason it is a downloadable title is because there is no movement to put together the effort to revise Mega Man for this generation. This game would never ever even be thought about were it not for these services. With them, it becomes another way to squeeze out some more cash from an ancient gameplay style, by calling it "retro" and other buzzwords like that. With Capcom, it seems more like a cover for uncreativity than anything.

I agree that games don't need to be constantly ground breaking, but that doesn't mean they should constantly retread old ground. This is aimed for the fans, no one else. If fans buy this and don't make clear their desires to have Mega Man 10 for a console, that sends a message to Capcom that fans will buy any crap they throw out as long as they label it the right way.

i think it's better this way.

having to burn it on a cd or dvd is a little bit waste of discs. it's propably too small. another idea could have been to bring it to the DS. but this way they get more people who played the old Megaman games.

Of course they shouldn't burn a game of this size to a CD, it's way too small. The size of Mega Man 9 makes it fit as a downloadable title, but it deserves more.

I understand where you're coming from with the deserving-more attitude, but I don't think that's exactly what classic Mega Man is about.

The original series has never really been about incredibly deep plots, masterful storytelling, or giant 40-hour playthroughs. It's just a series of simple games with eight bosses and a final level, about a good guy trying to take down a bad guy. This has been the case since the first game. (well okay technically that one had 6 bosses)

You see what I'm getting at? In that youtube video you go on a bit of a tangent about Capcom's storytelling abilities, and how MM9 isn't all that it could be. But do ANY of the games in the classic series really have a terribly deep plot? I don't think so. The classic games keep it simple, and to make a huge, larger-than-life game with a huge plot to be published onto a disc would be a massive deviation from the tradition established by Mega Man 1-8.

Sometimes it's not fear of innovation, it's just appreciation of tradition.

Again, if Capcom was a company that regularly experimented, I'd believe that. But it's not just Mega Man-all across the board, Capcom has shown a great reluctance to try new things. There's a difference between keeping a tradition and simple copy-pasting. Capcom is a copy-paster. I don't see any desire to maintain tradition, I see a resistance to what could happen if they only took the first step.

Yeah, I tangent a bit about plot, but I did mention that great games don't neccessarily need a major plot if the gameplay is solid and consistently interesting. Mega Man doesn't boast either of these most of the time. A lack of plot is okay in Classic, because the scenario was so simply drawn out, but that's not the case with X and Zero and ZX. There, they just don't take it far enough.

You're really missing the mark. Megaman is not a huge part of the gaming culture anymore and never could be. Even if the games sold as well as the old ones, regardless if they pushed any boundaries or not, any new game would likely still be a niche title. This is the year 2008 and nothing short of completely changing the entire tone of the series could possibly make the series mainstream again. Madden, Halo, GTA.. those are the mainstream titles of today. If Capcom wanted Megaman to be mainstream they'd have to make something that appeals to that crowd. You know the crowd that joined when video games became mainstream during the last generation or so.

Simply put your mind is in the past. It's practically impossible to make a Megaman game that is true to the series and mainstream. The gaming world culture has changed.

So Megaman 9 is pretty much exclusively for the fans. So what? So the game looks like a rehash of alot of the older titles. Judging from the excitement alot of fans have been showing towards it Megaman 9 is along the lines of what we wanted.

Edited by Necro on August 17, 2008 at 0:39:35.

Who says you can't take Megaman into the mainstream while keeping its appeal? The thing is that no one was willing to try. Capcom sure isn't. Capcom never tries to revamp anything. I'm not saying there are no creative people that work at Capcom, I'm just saying that Capcom won't take the risk to sit down and rethink the franchise. If Mario can continue to appeal to new and old gamers, while keeping the central theme of "plumber fights evil turtle to save princess", then why can't Mega Man?

You see, while it may be true that Mega Man 9 is a present to the fans, it's also true that, as a present for the fans, Capcom will not have to do anything more with it. I don't believe that a drastic revamp of Mega Man would be a niche title (and without sacrificing the core "select-the-boss-you-want-first" mechanic). After all, no one has tried yet, has they? Street Fighter IV is an exception of taking a past franchise and trying to revive it for this generation. Mega Man deserves the same. Of course, if Street Fighter 4 is successful, then Mega Man just might follow.

The day Mega Man takes a "hardcore" revamp is the day Capcom declares bankruptcy. That's all we need.

Mega Man: Act Zero...

Poor Bomberman.



Yeah, but then there's the Wii, that's turning soccer moms, grandmas, uncles and babies into gamers, while still appealing to the core audience with a library of good games (although, limited). Since Mega Man is a franchise aimed at more core gamers, and for younger audiences to boot, and still having that happy family-friendly vibe, Mega Man would be more than a welcomed contender on the Wii, and a nice addition to the lacking number of good 3rd Party games on that system.

And some of the hardcore gamers, and let me repeat this, ONLY SOME, might think that a Mega Man game, if it was to be released on one of the more powerful consoles (Xbox 360, PS3) in all of it's simplistic shooting/platforming and colorful and distinctive robot characters and enemies, would declare the game "gay". So, as far as Mega Man goes, who really cares what SOME of the now mainstream "hardcore" gamers think? Resident Evil, Dead Rising and Lost Planet aren't enough to please that audience? (And I just want to point out, I love Resident Evil and I'm hyped to see how well Dead Rising does on the Wii.)

I'm with HD on effort and risk. If Street Fighter IV can get a console release, in all of it's simplistic 2-D style fighting, which is a franchise that is also aimed at fans, Mega Man should be able to as well.

But that doesn't mean that the 8-bit, downloadable Mega Man 9, is going to suck. Mega Man might not get the mainstream he deserves, but the fans and potential new gamers, looking for a different 3rd Party Game, again, on the Wii, might just find a love for the Blue Bomber on Nintendo's ALSO mainstream console.

Edited by Arkane on August 17, 2008 at 14:31:44.

Oh, that's just not fair. DDDDDX

What makes Megaman Megaman is the very thing that will keep him from being mainstream. Back in the NES and SNES days when Megaman was more mainstream the culture of video games was different. The market wasn't oversaturated with FPS games and GTA do whatever you want type of games. It was just a different time.

To be mainstream these days you have to compete with the Halos, the Maddens, the Grand Theft Autos.. you have to make something that appeals to that fanbase. If Megaman was something that did they'd likely already be picking up the series. There was an explosion of gamers these last two generations joining the fray and Megaman games being rehashes to them likely wouldn't mean anything because they likely never even really played the series to begin with.

You try to make something that appeals to them and you'll likely remove Megaman from it's very essence and end up with something like what Arkane brought up, Bomberman: Act Zero. Megaman has it's own identity and if that isn't mainstream what does it matter as long as the fans still get something that appeals to them?

As for Street Fighter IV Capcom must have more faith in it's ability to sell than Megaman.

Other genres exist besides FPS and GTA clones that do just fine with gamers. Like someone mentioned before, a Mega Man revamp would be great on the Wii due to its atmosphere, and I guarantee some new-generation gamers will give it a spin after their older friends profess how awesome Mega Man is.

You can't let the past limit you in terms of what you can achieve. There are franchises that started on the NES that are still being put out today, taking advantage of new technology while still keeping the same overall feel. By going mainstream, I'm not suggesting that you turn it into a Bomberman: Act Zero type of affair. You don't need that. However, there's no evidence that proves that Mega Man can't keep the majority of its gameplay style and still appeal to gamers of this generation. The only proof we would truly have is if Capcom actually sat down and tried to see it through.

It's really easy to say that when it's not your money on the line to take a risk. Thats all there is to say about this any further.

I've kind of come to terms with Mega Man 9 and pretty much gracefully admitted defeat shortly after it was first shown.

If this really is one of the only ways the classic series can survive and be made financially viable at this point, I'm okay with that.

I'd rather it be something like this than a big reinvention or prettier version of more of the same that ends up tanking at retail and could very well put the final death nail in the series.

Edited by Dr.chaos on August 21, 2008 at 22:18:30.

Lol, like arguing with a brick.

Bricks don't hit back.

...sorry, I just got off of watching Enter the Dragon.

I've been talking with Dr. Cossack about this topic, and he directed me to this topic in the forum. I've never posted here in this forum, although I've been a fan of this website for many years, about since it first started.

Anyway, I'm going to go ahead and copy over exactly what I told Cossack in regards to whether or not Rockman 9 deserves more than a dowloadable content release:

Inafune himself said in an interview this summer that the simple fun of a classic /Mega Man/ game "doesn't fit into the grandiose and expansive world that the consumer gaming industry has become, and so you have to make games that match the current expectations." He said pushing for the creation of a /Mega Man/ in the style of the original "would be quickly criticized for things like being simplistic, outdated, or too expensive", thus making it "too difficult" to develop such games in the "current climate. So, basically, he wanted to make a game that went back to the traditional roots of the series (around the time of MM1 and MM2, with MM2 being the peak of the classic gaming), and to give the hardcore fans of the series a classic game – essentially both a new MM game and a new NES game. Is it being cheaply developed? I don’t think so, especially since he says a lot of the folks from Capcom’s main MM development team, and from IntiCreate’s main team, are developing this game, regardless of the fact that its an NES title at its core.

To answer the question as to whether they should be “doing more” with MM9, that is, should they release it as an actual physical game (and not simply a downloadable title), that can be debated. I think, though, Inafune and the folks at Capcom are playing it safe here and testing the waters. It isn’t certain as to how many people are going to buy this game, and especially at the price of a physically-released game, so making it downloadable content that they can charge a modest fee for makes it more widely accessible. However, they could have gone the route of having a limited physical release, sort of like a “Rockman 20^th Anniversary Edition” of MM9, including the soundtrack or something, and only made, say, about 10,000 copies per region? Who knows. And maybe, just maybe, they could still do something like that depending on how successful the downloadable content is? Besides, there has been talk that if this goes well, we might see more MM content like this (possibly a Rockman 10, or something else along those lines). I guess we’ll just have to see.

Anyway, that's what I said to him about this, and that about sums up my thoughts on the topic. Still, it would be cool if they would do a special physical release of Rockman/MM9, but I only think they will do that if the downloadable version does well, so we'll just have to see.