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Necro
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Sales are customer loyalty. Some people whining on the internet is hardly representitive of the majority of people who bought a game unless you know, the fanbase generally hates it (like X7). If the portion that complains is a vocal minority, then yes, Capcom should ignore them.

Buying or not buying a game will make far more an impact on Capcom's decisions than anything we tell them to do. I never made any judgements as to how Capcom should operate, because that isn't my place. They, like all corporations will operate in the manner the produces the most profit. That's just the reality of the business world. Your dollars mean more to them than your words. The only thing that could make them change how they operate is if they find a way to make more money. Business is business.


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Business is business, but it is also about service and improvement. Capcom doesn't meet these ends, in my opinion. And I've found the Mega Man fanbase doesn't help either. I guess I can't stop them from wanting the same old same old, but Capcom hasn't spent much effort trying to show them another way works just as well.

Fortunately there are companies out there who show that dedication to service and improvement, so I'll continue to support them over those that don't.

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Wow, here I thought that the best debate was on TV tonight.


Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
Megaman doesn't do well because in reality, it isn't more than a niche title. All the innovation in the world wouldn't change that, at least not without removing what makes Megaman well, Megaman.

They did that, it's called Mega Man Legends, and it's not everyone's cup of tea. I don't like the Mega Man Legends series mostly because it doesn't have that Mega Man vibe, it's too different; on the other hand, many people cherish it and really want that new sequel to come out. I'm sure that plenty of new fans joined the community for that oddball title figuring a blue boy walking around in 3D on the Playstation.

Quote:
Originally posted by The Helldragon
... Capcom tends to mishandle franchises, so I personally think they contributed to the problem.

It's one thing to release a product. It's another to present it to everyone, fans and newcomers alike, to generate some buzz about it. If you only throw something in stores with no further attempts (ads? promotions? new content offer? originality?), the odds that said product won't have great numbers to show a few months later shouldn't be all that surprising. As you said, it's lazy management.

I don't think I'm entitled to anything, I'm not asking Capcom to create a Battle Network 7 just because I loved the others, I'm not asking them to stop working on Legends 3 because my little person doesn't care. As I said in my first post, "I suddenly have no more urge to go and pick up the first one... ", so I'm voting with my dollars. However, focusing on cold hard facts can also shadow something important: reputation. You don't build a reputation with a single decision, it's a long-time process that needs to have some sort of continuity. Reputation will eventually lead people to make purchases on that alone, but Capcom apparently doesn't want to follow that trail.

I made the conscious decision some time back to focus less on franchises and more on what games look fun. Impress me, I buy; if not, I'll look at something else. It's that simple. The same goes for movies: I don't search for specific producers, I look at how the movie itself looks.


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This thread got silly real fast, I was only potato hunting for what felt like a couple hours.

My personal problem is that almost immediately after he announced this, he went on and confirmed that the series wasn't dead in North America. That may be a funny thing to complain about, but here's the thing: If you're going to cut a series because it's no longer selling. Okay, I'll wait for fan translations. They'll take longer than usual, but okay. But by saying "WELL WE'LL PROBABLY STILL SELL THE SERIES" after skipping over one is pretty contradictory to the whole "THIS SERIES ISN'T SELLING. SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING." And by eventually just giving in and reading the script, I'm actually pretty amazed they'd even think of continuing the series after skipping over this installment. A major character never directly seen before gets some serious spotlight, and the events that play out around him fill in a good deal of loose holes.

It's like selling parts 1 and 3 in a trilogy, but cutting 2 because the first one wasn't as successful as you had hoped.

There's also the fact that Capcom didn't advertise the series at all since, what, Justice for All? But that's a whole other can of worms and I don't like arguing so yeah.

tl;dr: If you're going to cancel a series because you don't like wasting money, okay, but at least go the whole mile and just say the series is dead rather than jump over major points.

Necro
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Cossack
"I suddenly have no more urge to go and pick up the first one... ", so I'm voting with my dollars. However, focusing on cold hard facts can also shadow something important: reputation. You don't build a reputation with a single decision, it's a long-time process that needs to have some sort of continuity. Reputation will eventually lead people to make purchases on that alone, but Capcom apparently doesn't want to follow that trail.


There's definitely merit to this, but to pose a legitimate question: does Capcom have a bad reputation these days? Before anyone hurries to say they think Capcom sucks therefor the proof is right there, you have to consider the success they are having with Street Fighter and RE. I don't know MvsC3 is selling either, but it definitely had alot of hype building up to it's release.

So, is their reputation tarnished today in the eyes of gamers? Ignore your personal judgements of Capcom, or whether or not you like their franchises that currently sell the best.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
If they don't think a product will sell enough to justify putting money into promotion or localization it's a waste of their time.


The only way a franchise even starts out is by first taking a risk. They don't know if it will be profitable or not. There might be a few hints to be found in what is currently mainstream or in demand, but for the most part, it has to be something entirely new in order for it to stand out.

I can understand that a game company shouldn't take risks all of the time, but at the same time, they need to stay fresh and original, at least once in a while.

I suppose Capcom has done that to some extent. Not so much with the Mega Man series, however. But that's just tough. Personally, I don't really even care about other Capcom franchises. But hey, at least someone out there is happy with what Capcom's been working on right now.

Quote:
Originally posted by The Helldragon
I see little evidence of them listening to fans, taking into consideration what games they want to play.


This maybe true for Mega Man fans and other Capcom franchise fans, but I'm sure Resident Evil And Street Fighter fans have never been happier. Capcom can only work on so many games and franchises at once, all while making some sort of revenue.

Even though Mega Man Universe got canceled, we'll be getting Mega Man Legends 3, a much requested game from fans which hadn't died off even after 10 years.

It's true that Capcom does show a lack of innovation with some of it's more successful franchises and uses the excuse of "not messing with a good thing" to justify not changing anything. But at the same time, there's money to be made off of fans who like the games keeping with their traditional formula. So don't hate the company for playing a good hand. Hate the fans that keep putting money in the pot!

Also, part of the problem with the Mega Man series, I think is that there are so many sub-franchises, that there is no - one "right" Mega Man to consider for the next installment, since each one has it's share of fans. It's a very unfocused fan base. And that came from trying to appeal to different gamers by experimenting with other genres using the franchise with each different series. And now we have so many Mega Man franchises, who the hell knows what the right decision is now?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mega X.exe
Well, with all our sparkling personalities and temper tantrums we throw whenever we get denied our arrogant demands, it's a little easier to see why we're not taken seriously.


Would it be any better if fans didn't care at all? I don't see how wanting a franchise or an idea to flourish is a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
Megaman doesn't do well because in reality, it isn't more than a niche title.


There's nothing wrong with that. Other platform games like Donkey Kong Country Returns, Kirby's Epic Yarn or New Super Mario Bros. Wii weren't in demand, but were all successful. Sure, it's Nintendo, but all of those games are simple throw back titles with only graphical updates as something new for the most part. Mega Man could follow suit in something like that. (I guess Mega Man Universe WAS suppose to be something like that, but we don't even know for sure why it got canceled.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
All the innovation in the world wouldn't change that, at least not without removing what makes Megaman well, Megaman.


Mega Man doesn't need a change. An update might do him good though. Look at how many franchises that stick with their roots, while utilizing the current hardware capabilities go on to be successful. (see the games mentioned above, and also Bionic Commando: Rearmed and Street Fighter 4.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
The most successful games these days tend to be games which feature competitive online playing


Who says a new Mega Man needs to be a game like that to be successful? Mind you, online would be cool for Mega Man (much like it would be for most games), but not necessary.

Isn't Mega Man taking a crack at online multiplayer with Rockman Online?

Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
It's unlikely at this point Megaman at this point could move past it's status as a niche title and even if it could, that wouldn't necessarily be a good thing either.


Or could it?

Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
Hear that Activision. Stop making Call of Duty or I won't buy any titles made by you ever.


lol

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Cossack
It's one thing to release a product. It's another to present it to everyone, fans and newcomers alike, to generate some buzz about it. If you only throw something in stores with no further attempts (ads? promotions? new content offer? originality?), the odds that said product won't have great numbers to show a few months later shouldn't be all that surprising. As you said, it's lazy management.


It's funny that you mention this, because Mega Man Battle Network 4 sold the most out of any game in that franchise (actually, it's the 2nd highest selling Mega Man game next to Mega Man 2) and that game is the worst in the Battle Network franchise, IMO. Yet it was released around the time of Mega Man NT Warrior.

Quote:
Originally posted by Necro

I don't know MvsC3 is selling


Oh, it is:

PS3 sales
Xbox360 Sales

HollowTorment
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Some things

1. I hated Miles Edgeworth's first game. It was clunky. Therefore I don't give a fuck that the second is not being released.

2. It's amusing to see Necro and Mega X having to repeat the same thing over and over and over to try to give some common sense to fanboys.

3. I like Capcom as a company, personally. They've never done something that "enraged" me as badly as some of the Megaman fancreeps I've seen. Sure X7 was horrible, but I stopped caring after X3 anyway. They released Ace Attorney over here as well, something I thought they'd never do since it was a lawyer sim. I dislike some of their titles to a large degree, but it never makes me go "You know what, I hate Capcom cause they're not pandering to my whims".

Quote:
The only way a franchise even starts out is by first taking a risk.


4. Do you know how much it costs to make a game?

Final thoughts. Let Megaman die with some dignity. Capcom doesn't have Inafune anymore anyway.

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Killing it for a decade or so would do it some good.

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Quote:
Originally posted by The Helldragon
Killing it for a decade or so would do it some good.



Hmm... That idea makes me wonder "Really?"

Has Megaman become a non-profitable series?
Do you think Capcom will kill Mega's dignity
without Inafune?

Or is that just from a personal

"Megaman's gotten pretty bad" viewpoint?

HollowTorment
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Megaman didn't have any dignity WITH Inafune.

Look at Powered Up. Is that dignity? No, it's "wait, 5 year olds are profitable and they all have PSPs, right? Let's make this game this looks like a good idea"

I have no idea who did what, but I'm PRETTY sure Inafune had his hands all over "Maverick Hunter X" and Powered Up, and they were both trash.

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Quote:
Originally posted by HollowTorment
I have no idea who did what, but I'm PRETTY sure Inafune had his hands all over "Maverick Hunter X" and Powered Up, and they were both trash.


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I do agree that the Powered Up art design wasn't a very smart choice considering the PSP's consumer market, which is what may have contributed to the low sales.

Maverick Hunter X on the other head, although not as good as the original (IMO), was still pretty damn tight.

Necro
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I haven't played either Maverick Hunter X or Powered Up, so for all I know they could be terrible gameplaywise. Or, even perhaps great!

I don't think artstyle is such a huge issue, people bitched and moaned about Wind Waker's graphics but it has a decent fanbase now. (Best Zelda, imo)

No, the problem is they were released on the PSP which nobody really cared about back then.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
I haven't played either Maverick Hunter X or Powered Up, so for all I know they could be terrible gameplaywise. Or, even perhaps great!

I don't think artstyle is such a huge issue, people bitched and moaned about Wind Waker's graphics but it has a decent fanbase now. (Best Zelda, imo)

No, the problem is they were released on the PSP which nobody really cared about back then.


Look, I know we're on the same side of this and all but...


I feel very strongly about the superiority of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. I'm just sayin'.

Anyway, my opinion of Inafune rests entirely on whether or not he came up with the whole "suffering circuit" concept. Because that was really fucking stupid.

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That's okay, the Maverick Virus was given a new origin, apparently: a subspecies of Roboenza. Even though they haven't retconned the whole Suffering Circuit bit being behind it. Still trying to find the proper reference to see if it's true.


"Why do you care that I care that you care enough to care that I care for caring?" "Conversation isn't your strong point, is it?"
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CAPCOM: We put the "No" in Innovation.

Necro
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mega X.exe
Quote:
Originally posted by Necro
I haven't played either Maverick Hunter X or Powered Up, so for all I know they could be terrible gameplaywise. Or, even perhaps great!

I don't think artstyle is such a huge issue, people bitched and moaned about Wind Waker's graphics but it has a decent fanbase now. (Best Zelda, imo)

No, the problem is they were released on the PSP which nobody really cared about back then.


Look, I know we're on the same side of this and all but...


I feel very strongly about the superiority of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. I'm just sayin'.


S'ok. If you want to discuss Zelda that is cool (though this may not be the most appropriate place for that), but I'll just say for now I still think OoT is a masterpiece, despite WW being my favorite.

I'll admit I've never actually played Majora's Mask. Been thinking maybe I should download it for the Wii's Virtual Console some time.


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Lulz, suffering circuit was Inafune's doing as far as I know. He likes shitting things up with retcon.

But yeah the entire "Well, Mavericks are just understood cause they can't handle their emotions aka they have hit robot puberty" thing is...fucking awful. To the max.

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"Mavericks are just understood"? Really?


"Why do you care that I care that you care enough to care that I care for caring?" "Conversation isn't your strong point, is it?"
"I worship the supreme comrade Cossack!"
"OugharagarraaahhHHH: When 'Ow' just won't cut it."
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CAPCOM: We put the "No" in Innovation.

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Originally posted by RisingDragon
"Mavericks are just understood"? Really?


YOU'RE NOT MY REAL MOM

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Misunderstood.

Seriously man nitpicking a word in a post? That's so 2001

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Quote:
Originally posted by HollowTorment
Misunderstood.

Seriously man nitpicking a word in a post? That's so 2001


You say that like we have better things to do at this board. :k


"Why do you care that I care that you care enough to care that I care for caring?" "Conversation isn't your strong point, is it?"
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"OugharagarraaahhHHH: When 'Ow' just won't cut it."
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CAPCOM: We put the "No" in Innovation.

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Originally posted by RisingDragon
You say that like we have better things to do at this board. :k


Well, if you have suggestions to liven things up, drop me a note! New features, options, or even new forums, maybe you have some good ideas!


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Quote:
Originally posted by HollowTorment
Misunderstood.

Seriously man nitpicking a word in a post? That's so 2001


Pssh. Whatever. I was nitpicking before it was cool.

Too mainstream now.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Cossack
Quote:
Originally posted by RisingDragon
You say that like we have better things to do at this board. :k


Well, if you have suggestions to liven things up, drop me a note! New features, options, or even new forums, maybe you have some good ideas!


turn the forums hot pink and make me an admin

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Alright, so TJ is now the happy user of the exclusive hot pink theme, along with the "Not Admin" status.

Image


Still, I'm serious. If someone has an idea on something they'd like to see happening here, please let me know. :)


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dont worry, its only exclusive to me for now.

it'll be available to everyone else as $15 DLC in two months