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Topic: Attention, Cat People..., Listen good.

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FlareMan
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Posted on February 9, 2013 at 6:55:36 [Post link]
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Okay I just... have something I need to get off my chest.

I just saw the... stupidest... person-of-the-week, and... let's just say he or she is a little cat-crazy.

I was reading this article on just about my favorite website ever, Cracked.com, and for reasons I can't explain I actually dared to glimpse the comments section.

If you choose to do so, first of all, there are medals for people with your kind of bravery (and lectures for your kind of insane curiosity). Second of all, you'll notice a shockingly absurd number of comments by a person calling themselves "BigMeanCat".

If you don't want to browse the comments (nobody would blame you), I can crop a few select lines that particularly roused my ire tonight.

Quote:
Let your cats outside. They are not plush toys or furniture. They are animals, and it is cruel to keep them locked up in a confined space. You wouldn't want someone to do it to you. Don't do it to them.


Also...

Quote:
Guess what? Humans do waaay more to screw up the ecosystem than cats, so I guess we should be locking all humans indoors for life, huh?


And finally...

Quote:
Kiss off. I'm not sentencing my cat to a life sentence just so he can live imprisoned for a few more years. If a longer lifespan is more important to you than a life that you can actually enjoy, then put your money where your mouth is lock yourself inside for life.


Pretty... alarming, right? No?

There may be one or two of you out there reading this who say "... so what? That's the kind of thing I'd say. I agree. 100%.".

To you, I have something to say. And that something is this.

CATS. ARE DUMB. ANIMALS.

Now, while you let that sink in, let me sprinkle some sugar on it by informing you that I am a "cat person". I have 3 precious little ones of my own and they are the sunshine in my little gray world.

And they are dumb, dumb animals.

You see, the thing that some of you need to understand is that you're looking at things ALL WRONG. You're putting yourself in your cat's shoes without realizing that you're still thinking like a human.

Yes, a human would find it pretty depressingly maddening to be locked up in the house all of their life. But a cat does not. A cat could not give a sh**. Do cats LIKE the outdoors? Yes. It can be argued that they do and I would be on the side of the argument that says they do. Would their little hearts and spirits be broken from a lifetime under the yoke of the oppressive man-regime that keeps them secure in their little biodome experiments? The better question is "Would a cat give a sh**". And the answer to that in any circumstance is "No. A cat could not give a sh**".

Look, you can instantly distract a cat by jingling some keys around or flicking around a laser pointer. They do not HAVE the kind of capability for deep, emotional inner thought that allows a sentient being to "yearn" for un-necessary things. You are doing nothing. NOTHING but pissing off proper cat-owners by telling them they are horrible people for "locking up their cats" and "making them sad". Cats do not even get sad. They only have two emotions. Content, and Anger.

As long as you give a cat food, toys, and plenty of snuggles there is no fathomable reason for depression to even be a factor. Cats may like the outdoors but they like being around their loving owners a great deal more. I think they'll live.

So do the environment a favor (apparently), and keep your cats indoors.

And that's my rant for the night...


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WindRider739
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Posted on February 10, 2013 at 16:56:45 [Post link]
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I read as far as 'cracked.com' so I know you have good taste in websites. Unfortunately, the rest was a case of TB;DR. Your orange text is obnoxious on the standard skin and my eyes scream out in pain when I read you.


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Posted on February 10, 2013 at 20:11:44 [Post link]
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Quote from post #231534:
Originally posted by WindRider739
Your orange text is obnoxious on the standard skin and my eyes scream out in pain when I read you.


I know I'm off-topic, but I've got something underway to make this a non-issue, along with Juno's Pretty Purple. Coming Soon (tm)!


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FlareMan
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Posted on February 10, 2013 at 21:22:07 [Post link]
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Quote from post #231534:
Originally posted by WindRider739
I read as far as 'cracked.com' so I know you have good taste in websites. Unfortunately, the rest was a case of TB;DR. Your orange text is obnoxious on the standard skin and my eyes scream out in pain when I read you.

... what don't you like about Orange...?

FYI I read these forums in the original MegaMan-style skin. The way god intended.


Edited by FlareMan on February 10, 2013 at 15:23:04


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Morphman
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Posted on February 11, 2013 at 0:04:02 [Post link]
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BigMeanCat kind of forgot to mention that most of those cat's owners do not go out into the wild and kill animals for pleasure, so that's a pretty big distinction between humans and their cats as well.

At least it's more humane than having the cat declawed so it can't hurt other animals (which it still could, just less effectively).


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Posted on February 12, 2013 at 15:01:18 [Post link]
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Not really alot I can say as I'm not a cat person and I would never want one, but I do not appreciate when cats come into my yard decide to use it as a toilet.


Samsara
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Posted on February 13, 2013 at 0:13:14 [Post link]
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Quote from post #231534:
Originally posted by WindRider739
I read as far as 'cracked.com' so I know you have good taste in websites. Unfortunately, the rest was a case of TB;DR. Your orange text is obnoxious on the standard skin and my eyes scream out in pain when I read you.


Text that colour just makes me think everything's a link. Then I remember that links haven't been that colour in years.


Breakman
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Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:30:17 [Post link]
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I agree with you, Flare, to an extent. Pet cats should never be outside (namely because of the wildlife that will pick them off or the chance of meeting a cruel human who want to do harm) or at least not without supervision or leash.

But to say they only have two emotions, I refuse to believe that. It is true that some animals really don't care about other creatures even if those other creatures feed and take care of them. But there are some who do. Some animals remember their friends/family/owners. They recognize their scents, how they look, and memories.

I'm not saying they will or could analyze why, for example, abuse was done to them. But they will remember and react to it. Some lash out, some cower in a corner or hide, or some would die from the stress.

On a different note, an animal can act differently when a friend/family/owner is sick or dying. They could curl up next to them or even drag them off a busy street.

I feel that because of the few animals that show some sort of basic cognition (apart from apes and dolphins because there are plenty of studies that already show they do have the mental capacity to think with reason), all animals of that same species have that ability. It's just most choose not to use it just as most humans choose not to use common sense or kindness.

I'm pretty sure I'm rambling by now...

Quote from post #231539:
Originally posted by Morphman
BigMeanCat kind of forgot to mention that most of those cat's owners do not go out into the wild and kill animals for pleasure, so that's a pretty big distinction between humans and their cats as well.

At least it's more humane than having the cat declawed so it can't hurt other animals (which it still could, just less effectively).


But plenty of other humans do. I hear of and known of people who have zero respect for animals and kill and torture them 'just because' they can. Some are caught, most aren't. Then there's also hunting for sport...

And declawing is not humane. It's as if having your top digits of your fingers missing. And I don't think a declawed cat has much of a chance against most wild animals, especially coyotes.


To a different but similar subject, many dog owners say that dogs only "make friends" with wildlife. From my experience, a couple of my dogs killed birds in my backyard (kinda impressed that one actually jumped and caught it in the air as the bird swooped low). No matter how many dog attacks happen, diseases and parasites they could and do pass to wildlife from their discarded scat, or disturbances to the ecosystems, dogs are the sacred animal to humans. Which brings me to my next point, I don't blame pets for "destroying" ecosystems. I blame the idiotic humans who bring them there and not being responsible for their and their animals' behaviors. Animals will do what comes naturally to them. Humans have the ability to foresee problems that could arise from current actions.

Edited by Breakman on February 13, 2013 at 1:35:57


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Morphman
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Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:08:51 [Post link]
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Quote from post #231552:
Originally posted by Breakman
But plenty of other humans do. I hear of and known of people who have zero respect for animals and kill and torture them 'just because' they can. Some are caught, most aren't. Then there's also hunting for sport...

And declawing is not humane. It's as if having your top digits of your fingers missing. And I don't think a declawed cat has much of a chance against most wild animals, especially coyotes.


Yes, and those humans are the ones we try to lock up as well, and if it's discovered that a person is a great threat then it's possible that others take measures to prevent them from doing things that would require us to lock them up later. Cats who would kill animals while outside for pleasure could likewise be prevented from doing so, and much more easily.

Declawing definitely isn't humane (hence my saying locking cats up is more humane, as locking them up is humane at all). I dunno about coyotes, but then again those aren't really a problem here. ^^;


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HollowTorment
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Posted on February 17, 2013 at 4:40:55 [Post link]
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Declawing isn't humane in the fact that sometimes it goes wrong, and the poor animal suffers with pain the rest of its life. Declawed cats also usually become aggressive and need psychological treatment (yes, this DOES exist for pets) because they feel they can no longer defend themselves.

I'm not a staunch advocate against declawing, because sometimes it needs to be done, such as someone having to move to a home that forbids clawed cats. It's better to declaw them and keep them with the family they love, than having to give them up. But it definitely has drawbacks.

Also I am joining Wind in not reading whatever the hell Flareman posts.


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FlareMan
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Posted on March 8, 2013 at 2:10:34 [Post link]
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To be fair, when I said cats only have two emotions, I was just being dramatic. I'm well aware that all pets, including felines, are not only CAPABLE of love, but express it frequently and freely.

But, yeah. The main flavor-point of my rant was that it's just absolutely retarded to believe a cat gets depressed from staying inside the house.

A cat's needs and wants are simple enough that it can do just about anything and everything it could ever want within the safety and comfort of it's own home. It'd be just as ridiculous as saying a Betta gets depressed from having only a small glass bowl to live in.

Although, I don't have an issue with taking the cat out for a walk or something, but I do disagree wholeheartedly with the idea of putting the cat out by itself just for the sake of not having it in the house or because you want fluffy to have some freedom. Cats are pretty adept hunters and I don't doubt for a second they can wipe out populations of local wildlife given the opportunity. I take my cats outside every now and then but I stay with them the whole time.


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HollowTorment
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Posted on March 9, 2013 at 8:58:06 [Post link]
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Actually, a betta DOES get depressed from only having a small glass bowl to live in.

Number one, it's extremely toxic for them. Why do you think the little fishbowls in the store are usually harboring sick-looking or dead fish?

Number two, fish are not as brainless as we once thought. They need stimulation just as much as dogs or cats do. Little places to hide in, plants to nibble, etc.

Cats can very well get depressed from small, confined spaces, such as an apartment in say, Japan. Cats are exploratory animals by nature, if they have nothing to explore they get...bored. Then depressed. If you were confined to a very small area (you know, like prison) I doubt you'd want to get up in the morning, either.

But in majority of cases, cats are fine with their living arrangements and the person posting is either a nutter or a troll.


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FlareMan
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Posted on March 12, 2013 at 5:34:40 [Post link]
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Quote from post #231639:
Originally posted by HollowTorment
Actually, a betta DOES get depressed from only having a small glass bowl to live in.

Number one, it's extremely toxic for them. Why do you think the little fishbowls in the store are usually harboring sick-looking or dead fish?

Number two, fish are not as brainless as we once thought. They need stimulation just as much as dogs or cats do. Little places to hide in, plants to nibble, etc.

Cats can very well get depressed from small, confined spaces, such as an apartment in say, Japan. Cats are exploratory animals by nature, if they have nothing to explore they get...bored. Then depressed. If you were confined to a very small area (you know, like prison) I doubt you'd want to get up in the morning, either.

But in majority of cases, cats are fine with their living arrangements and the person posting is either a nutter or a troll.
I believe I read something about the fish thing on Cracked.com, yeah. But somehow I don't believe that this applies to smaller fish like Bettas and Goldfish, so I have to take what you just said there with a grain of salt (Plus, I like salt anyway).

Also, it's only toxic if you don't clean out the water. But they make dissolving tablets and stuff for that because we're not entirely monsters.


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God
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Posted on March 16, 2013 at 9:38:23 [Post link]
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Um, actually, cats are intelligent, they are crazy apparently, and they CHOOSE to ignore you when you tell them things or call them, but they *are* intelligent. In fact there was a cat on Jay Leno who learned multiplication (rather obvious to me that it must have been memorization rather then multiplication, but still better then anything a dog or any other dumb animal could do).

And I have seen that all cats have at least one quirk, yes I do think cats are crazy. but if literally every cat each has a quirk, then they must have psychological issues which means they have a brain CAPABLE of having psychological issues. Again unlike dogs unless the dog has been abused. n You can see how each cat has something odd about it in Wind's old post about his grandmother's five cats, one of whom sleeps in the Christmas tree and one of whom only poops in shoes. This is where I started to learn it, then I saw each individual cat always has SOMETHING from several other people.

And cats DO get depressed from staying indoors, the cat in this house does. In the winter, he always looks out the patio door and gets mad and complains when the window or door is not available to him, in fact he gets so mad he poops all around the house. And the reason he is looking at the door is because he loves being outside so much, because if he doesn't know it's cold, he will complain about why is the door not open.

Fish also do get depressed if you keep them in a bowl; why do you think they die way sooner yet can live for years in a large tank?

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Posted on March 16, 2013 at 21:53:44 [Post link]
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Quote from post #231680:
Originally posted by God
Fish also do get depressed if you keep them in a bowl; why do you think they die way sooner yet can live for years in a large tank?


Because a tank often has heating and filtration. Let's put you in a cold room with about no ventilation and see how you fare in the long term. :)


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WindRider739
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Posted on March 16, 2013 at 22:06:08 [Post link]
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Science has proven that fish below a certain size lack the higher brain function required to feel emotion beyond a fight/flight or mating capacity. Generally, fish in smaller containers die sooner due to the toxicity of the water. A goldfish for instance emits many times the toxic chemicals of most fish twice it's size, and this is why they have to be replaced once every other week if you don't take care of the water. There are many myths related to small containers. Beta, for instance, while territorial are not fiercely so. I had six Beta in a 55 gallon tank, and they got along fine, as long as they stayed away from eachother's respective hidey holes.


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HollowTorment
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Posted on March 20, 2013 at 20:04:38 [Post link]
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Quote:
Science has proven that fish below a certain size lack the higher brain function required to feel emotion beyond a fight/flight or mating capacity.


Link to studies or any sort of non-wikipedia articles?

If anyone still thinks fish are brainless after this thread, just watch this.


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WindRider739
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Posted on March 21, 2013 at 13:35:08 [Post link]
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I don't know how I'd look for something specific like that, when the internet is flooded with Vegan (vegetarian?) FISH HAVE FEELINGS rage debates, but it was in a book for one of my Psychology 20x or 30x classes about a year and a half ago.

It basically stated that fish species that reach maturity with brains below a certain size or density (with a couple other factors included) run on the same basic principals as insects, with very few exceptions. It was actually in a section talking about pets and the psychology attached to them compared to basic human psychology.

Edited by WindRider739 on March 21, 2013 at 8:35:44


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Sakura
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Posted on March 26, 2013 at 1:57:47 [Post link]
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I agree with what most people are saying, declawing is inhumane for the fact that it is a cosmetic surgery (tail docking, ear cropping, circumcision, etc.) that does not really benefit the creature at all but makes like easier for the one caring for the creature. These cosmetic surgeries are often used to get rid of an unwanted variable or control an unwanted behavior (e.g. cat scratching furniture).

But about the woman, I would never allow my (parents';) cat outside. She is declawed, first of all, and second of all, she hates the outdoors. Letting a cat out without some sort of harness and leash can lead to your cat running away, getting taken, or getting killed. Although some cats may like the outdoors, it is important to realize that they could run away forever (like dogs) and if not fixed, cause a bigger number in the amount of unwanted kittens. Most domesticated animals, besides dogs, seem to fear the outside, so it is important to keep a vigilant eye on them if let outside. When I take my rats out I have to be very careful that they don't run away or get stolen by a hawk.


Quote from post #231680:
Originally posted by God
Fish also do get depressed if you keep them in a bowl; why do you think they die way sooner yet can live for years in a large tank?


I agree with you. One reason why goldfish die in small containers, besides the obvious ammonia poisoning (and lack of heat/proper water aeration system) is the fact that their organs continue to to grow when their bodies can't, causing a painful organ failure for the fish.
I also believe fish have a great memory. While at work, they get excited when I approach because they know I feed them, but like to hide when kids are around because the little demons like to knock on their tanks.



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Posted on April 3, 2013 at 16:48:54 [Post link]
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Quote:
FISH HAVE FEELINGS rage debates


Well, they do have "feelings" as in they can feel. Even the smallest fish with the smallest brains can still feel pain and react accordingly. They are not "brainless", they just don't have higher functions.

See, humans are a strange lot and divide into many different categories. Some think that it's "cruel" to eat an animal that screams. Some are fine with fish because they don't make a noise. Some know that fish can feel pain as well, so they don't eat them either, thinking plants are the only way to go.

Funny thing is, some plants also have "feelings", as in they respond to certain factors, even touch. So I'm saying vegans are full of shit.

Humans as a whole need to kill in order to survive. That's just the way it is.

Edited by HollowTorment on April 3, 2013 at 22:49:19


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Posted on September 11, 2013 at 1:45:10 [Post link]
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My adorable lil keekat is too lovable to be harmful... well at least in his later years. Back when I first got him we had a bird that could talk, a small one. It annoyed the crap out of me. We went to my grandparents house for the weekend. When we got back mom went into the laundry room and found that my cat had eaten it. She cried, I pet my cat and said "good kitty" because screw that annoying bird...

I definitely appreciated the silence. That was the only time he'd ever killed an animal. The other times it was like he didn't even care that it existed and he's been RIGHT BESIDE ME like the adorable lil fuzzy black tumor that he is.

Edited by Tri-Edge on September 11, 2013 at 2:46:12


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Posted on September 11, 2013 at 3:11:07 [Post link]
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It was definitely nice to not hear it yell MOTHERF****R over and over all day and night.


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Samsara
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Posted on September 22, 2013 at 14:19:36 [Post link]
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Quote from post #232490:
Originally posted by Tri-Edge
My adorable lil keekat is too lovable to be harmful...


I think this attitude is the main problem. People don't look at their pet and see that they are keeping in their house a creature that has had millions of years to evolve into the most efficient hunter and killer it can be. All they see is fuzzy-wuzzy-ser-pouncealot.

We have a dog. She never goes out unsupervised because if she sees something, anything, her instinct is to kill. Dogs and cats kill for fun and unless you appreciate this you can contribute to the decimation of your local wildlife.

Edited by Samsara on September 22, 2013 at 15:20:13


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Posted on September 22, 2013 at 21:50:16 [Post link]
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It all fairness, Tri-Edge's cat is kind of retarded and harmless. Like... I'm pretty sure that if we moved his food bowl across the room, he might die of starvation. Also, now that I'm not afraid mom will get rid of my cat for it, I can come clean and say it TOTALLY wasn't your cat that did that. It was mine. I just figured your cat had a lesser chance of getting dumped in the countryside because Mike liked him so much >.> Sorry bout that...

Do bear in mind that while all cats have had all these years to evolve into hunters and killers, by the same token, centuries of domestication has weeded a bit of that out in many common household breeds and - to a lesser extent - mixed felines.

EDIT - Also this. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

Edited by WindRider739 on September 22, 2013 at 16:54:39


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