Image
Interordi Menu
Mega X.exe
Forum Ghost
Offline
6444 posts
Quote

Read Bob and George, Mega\'s the red-headed stepchild. He gets beaten in the more recent comics. Read and see why :lol:

Samsara
Superstar!
Offline
4039 posts
Quote

Quote:
Originally posted by Nayus Dante
no they dont. they are created. Dr light merely created robots whose programming grows over time and they became more intependant. I consider X to be alive, but Rock and Roll are merely independant machines with their own mind. If you have ever read any of Asimov\'s works, you will understand the two series a lot more. Asimov was quite possibly THE greatest scifi writer of all time. He is responsible for our modern image of robotics. Prior to his writings, robots were killing machines and monsters. He created a set of laws called the \"Laws of Robotics\" which will serve as the basis of all upcoming AI research. These laws are as follows (though not word for word):

1. A robot may never harm a human being or through inaction allow a human being to come to law.

2. A robot must protect its existance at all costs, except in cases where it would contradict the first law.

3. A robot must obey all orders given it by its master, except where it would contradict the first two laws.

Rock and Roll are what we call Asimovian robots. They are required to follow these laws. This is why Rock never killed Wily when he had the chance. The other robots he fights are also following the laws because they are (1) protecting their master, (2) protecting their own existance, and (3) obeying their master.

The mechaniloids in the X series are also somewhat Asimovian, though under inluence of Sigma.

X I believe to be alive for many reasons. He is completely independant. Let me explain that further.

He does not follow the three Laws. He is allowed to act on his own and to his own accord. His programming was originally modeled after the personality of a human. Possibly, Dr Light made X much like himself in terms of personality. When Dr Cain began making the Reploids, he tried to copy X\'s designs, but he looked at him as a robot and not a human. Thus, Cain produced successful designs for independant robots. The way this was accomplished was that he removed the three Laws from their programming and proceeeded to add normal AI. He used design elements from X, but did not completely copy the original designs. Eventually, as the reploids began to engineer new reploids on their own, they became more independant and on a level close to that of X.

Zero, it is possible, was created by Light. When Forte broke in to Light\'s lab in 7, (i dont have 7 so I cant confirm this) he stole information. This information could have contained Zero\'s designs, which Wily used to create Zero, but I believe he also changed some of the programming and left instructions to destroy Rock. I find it possible that Wily could have died before the activation of Zero and that Zero activated by some random computer failure. It is also possible that somewhere hidden in the code was an encrypted piece of code inserted by Light into the plans that wily stole. This code would have been some kind of remote command intercept, that, would receive an activate command upon the opening of the capsule. When Zero awoke, he was acting on programming done by Wily, and was searching for X in a vilent way. When Sigma fought him, he damaged him a bit. When he gets the \"Wily seizure\", I believe that a part of Wily\'s code was terminated by Light\'s original programming that slipped by Wily when he created Zero. This event caused Zero to \"crash\" and he lost all memory of his programming while his code was replaced by Light\'s original code. His memories of Wily are from a hidden sector of memory somewhere in him that has not been discovered.

This all proves how the reploids are alive and X and Zero are alive. I hope this clears up a lot to you.
I follow ther laws of my nation. Does this mean I\'m not living? No. Why should if be so for robots, if it\'s not so for me?


Mr Knorimack
Servbot
Inactive
37 posts
Quote

Quote:
Originally posted by Nayus Dante This is why Rock never killed Wily when he had the chance.


That is another flaw in your reply, because if you have beaten mm7, you would understand what i mean, and this is what im talking about, after megaman defeated willy once again, the ending went somthing like this.....

Megaman was faced to faced with whilly another time. Except this time it was alittle different, megaman did \'\'not\'\' let him go, instead, he charged a megabuster and aimed it right at dr. willy. Thats when willy said somthing like this- You cant kill me! Your just a robot! Then megaman said- (Im more then a robot willy. Die Willy, DIE!!!)

So what you said about how the old mm crew\'s minds worked, was wrong. Megaman hates willy, just like dr. light hates willy. Megaman hates him, not because he\'s ordered to, or whatever. He just hates the old crazy scientist, like any other normal human would. Megaman is not just obeying Dr. Lights orders, but that he saved the world so many times because he wanted to, not just because it was a derrect order. When Dr. willy kidnapped all the first six robots from mm1, he also kidnapped rock, but unlike the other six, rock could not be able to be programed by willy sence he has, like a \'\'soul\'\'. So when he returned home from the escape, Dr. Light didnt say- (Rock, i order you to become a fighting robot instead of just a house robot, I ORDER YOU!!!) For it was really rock who entended on becoming a fighting robot because of his own will and wrights of a living bieng. So what im trieng to say is, the mm crew *im prity sure* are just as alive as X and the other reploids in the futcher.




[Edited on 16-11-2003 by Mr Knorimack]

AimMan v2.5
Superstar!
Inactive
2429 posts
Quote

Oops. i\'m thinking of the Dash series to hard. let me mellow down.

I do believe that Roll is Megaman\'s \"sister\" in the OG series.

However, many forget how unrealistic Megaman is. I\'m not trying to denounce Megaman, he\'s just not realistic. AL (Artificial Intelligence) is programmed by humans into robots. Megaman, Roll, Bass, etc. are all clearly anounced as robots. This means they are programmed. They cannot realisticly have emotions. It\'s impossible to program a free-will into a robot. A robot\'s mind must operate upon randomnivity or probability. Only humans were bestown the gift of choice. Everything else in instinct or programming.

Phew. That was hard.


Join the DevART Megaman Legends Club:
http://megaman-legends-club.deviantart.com

Mr Knorimack
Servbot
Inactive
37 posts
Quote

I\'ve always thought about that, but what about X and the reploids from the mmx seirses. They have feilings, but are they just programes like the original mm crew and how they think? Or is it the other way around? What is a reploid? Every one says its a robot with its own free will and that they also has feilings, okay.... rock and roll, and blue, and bass all have emotions, so why arent they reploids to? And the answer is always- (besause they dont \'\'really\'\' have feilings, there just programs. Alright then, why just them? Why does every one think that the old robots emostions are just programs, while the new robots from the mmx seirses emostions are not a part of just programs? How does anyone know that the mmx crew surpassed being controled by being programed and are really living, and not the og mm crew? They all might have true feilings like a living being does, both og mm crew, and mmx crew. Or it might be the other way around, they might all not really be alive and that its just one big program.

Mega X.exe
Forum Ghost
Offline
6444 posts
Quote

People, it\'s a video game. Robots can think and be related. That\'s all there is to it.

Mr Knorimack
Servbot
Inactive
37 posts
Quote

I guess your wright, David from \"AI\" and Rock from \"Megaman\" are two totally different kinds of robots and are from two different kinds of stories. Al is a movie that focuse more on how robots think and how they live. Wow megaman is a video game that never gets deep at all into if they are living or not, sence going deep into if \"robots are alive or not\" is not what its about, so.... on megaman, they just explain that they have a conscience and emotions, only because that is just a little explaination of how to describe the robots, and how there alive. But none of that is really a part of the actuall story so lets just leave the robots from mm alone, and not go eny deeper with them, cause thats not what the story focuse on, k?;D
(although, i still like talking about it, even if they dont go any further with, if they are alive or not:(.....)

[Edited on 16-11-2003 by Mr Knorimack]

AimMan v2.5
Superstar!
Inactive
2429 posts
Quote

Yes, as I said, Megaman is unrealistic. This is what webcomics are for: personifying robots.

Also, reploids are even more unrealistic. I won\'t even start on that.

They sure are cool though.:D


Join the DevART Megaman Legends Club:
http://megaman-legends-club.deviantart.com

Mr Knorimack
Servbot
Inactive
37 posts
Quote

You cant really say that the robots(including reploids) from mm are unrealistic, because robots dont even excist in real life. All the stories that have to do with Al, are sience fiction, \"SIENCE FICTION\", meaning it most likely can not be done in real life. Megaman is unrealistic, but so are thousands of others fiction based stories. Its not possible to focuse your energy into an atack like they do on dbz, or fly, or do what ever in any fantasy or sience fiction story. Of course a man cant build life, thats impossible and unrealistic in *real life*, but not in the fiction world, remember, their just stories.;D

Mega X.exe
Forum Ghost
Offline
6444 posts
Quote

That\'s why they\'re unrealistic.

Inactive
330 posts
Quote

:(I do think Roll is Rock\'s sister if you look more carefully at the story on MegaMan1. I would know,i was there.


"I worship the Supreme Comrade Cossack!" yeah, I passed the n00b test.

Poor Hardman.


Nayus Dante
Superstar!
Inactive
862 posts
Quote

keep in mind that MM1 was a POOR translation of RM1. I dont acknowlege any of the story in the MM1 manual.

Mega X.exe
Forum Ghost
Offline
6444 posts
Quote

That does not however, prove that Rock and Roll are not siblings. Unless you find in the Japanese version they state otherwise, your argument has little to support it.

Banned
199 posts
Quote

Yes she is the blue bombers sister, she is made up with the same genes and has the same electrical brain prototype as Megaman Volnut dating to way back, it has a paragraph on this in her nintendo power profile.


-LAT NAM

Clown Prince of Crime
Lil' metool
Inactive
3 posts
Quote

Actually, while you are theorizing that Roll being Megaman's sister is an invention of lazy translating, that is not true at all. In Japan, she is also considered Megaman's (or in this case I should probably say Rockman's) sister.

Aside from the fact that in the "Rockman Megamix" manga, Rock refers not only to Roll and Blue (Protoman) as his brother and sister, but he refers to all of the MM1 Robot Masters as his brothers (since they, too, were created by Dr. Light).

Though, if manga ain't your thing, as I've said, in the games she is also considered his sister. If you know Japanese, you can find this out in pretty much any Japanese site having to do with Rockman.

As a good example, I'd like to use a site I found that goes very in-depth about Roll.

http://neo-yama-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/6ban/rollchan.htm

If you can read Japanese, you'll see that there's references to Roll as Rockman's sister. So, Roll being his sister is NOT a case of erroneous or lazy translating.

FlareMan
DMN #007
Inactive
1175 posts
Quote

Quote:
Originally posted by Mega X.exe
Quote:
Originally posted by AimMan v2.5
Their robots, so they kind of don't have a family so much as a product line.



Then there's the whole Robots can't think for themselves thing too. (Reploids are androids. There's a difference)
Rock decided on his own, to fight Wily. That's "impossible" according to popular belief. If Rock can do that, Why can't he and Roll be siblings?


Quote:
Originally posted by Samsara
That's confusing. Rock's not a reploid so he can't think for himself, but he decided to fight wily on his own:conf:. Isn't that kinda a cointradiction?


I'm responding to these fairly old posts right away, and haven't had a chance to look at the newer ones, so forgive me if I seem to be off-the-current-topic.

It always interested me that robots in the classic series are supposed to have no free-will. I think it maybe because of X. Light purposely gave him the ability for free will, which must mean that he never intended such things in his earlier creations so it never happened, right?

... So... who's to say that they didn't come upon this by accident?

ProtoMan apparantly gained free will through some glitch in his system, but it ultimately ended up being a bad glitch that may cost him his life later on.

Light may have been able to replicate this "glitch" without the negative side-effects in the later models. And Wily followed suit since Bass is just a carbon-copy of MegaMan anyway.

So, who's to say they didn't have free-will?

And as for the whole family thing... wether or not they actually are or aren't siblings, it seems to me that MegaMan and Roll consider each other as such. And if anyone has a say over wether or not they are, it's them.

Edited by FlareMan on May 29, 2007 at 15:56:44.


Back from another thousand-year hibernation.

RisingDragon
Goat Herder
Inactive
-4295 post
Lilly Satou
Lilly Satou
Acquired on 2 April 2012
Emi Ibarazaki
Emi Ibarazaki
Acquired on 2 April 2012
Heavy
Heavy
Acquired on 2 April 2012
Demoman
Demoman
Acquired on 2 April 2012
Pyro
Pyro
Acquired on 2 April 2012

... and 18 more
Quote

A person can certainly consider another person their brother or sister if they so choose, even if they aren't related.

As for their sentience, I've always believed that the pre-X robots had sentience and could think on their own, but had to adhere to their programming, like the three laws. It would be like a sort of moral code for them.

As for post-X bots, I'd just say they aren't programmed with such restricting laws, or that they are, but can choose to ignore it. As if they were merely guidelines.


"Why do you care that I care that you care enough to care that I care for caring?" "Conversation isn't your strong point, is it?"
"I worship the supreme comrade Cossack!"
"OugharagarraaahhHHH: When 'Ow' just won't cut it."
ImageImage
Image

CAPCOM: We put the "No" in Innovation.

Nayus Dante
Superstar!
Inactive
862 posts
Quote

Wow, we're still arguing over this. Last time I posted in here, I was a high school freshman, and I just graduated. Way to bring up old memories of my crappy grammar.

At any rate, I still think of TOS robots as Asimovian in terms of their forced adherence to the three laws. I feel the same way with mechaniloids, as they are just the X series equivalent of standard robots. Reploids, however, seem to have become a replacement for humans until the Zero series. This means that they should have free will and reproductive abilities in order to fulfill their new roles as dominant species, which X7-X8 seem to imply by the humans leaving earth for the moon while the reploids remain below. It doesn't seem very plausible that all reploids are "designed" by other reploids, but I could be wrong. The blood in the Zero series seems to imply that things are a bit more biological and organic than they seem.

Edit: Wow, I got a big laugh from my sandwich-donut analogy... Do I still think like that???

Edited by Nayus Dante on June 26, 2007 at 21:31:11.

RisingDragon
Goat Herder
Inactive
-4295 post
Lilly Satou
Lilly Satou
Acquired on 2 April 2012
Emi Ibarazaki
Emi Ibarazaki
Acquired on 2 April 2012
Heavy
Heavy
Acquired on 2 April 2012
Demoman
Demoman
Acquired on 2 April 2012
Pyro
Pyro
Acquired on 2 April 2012

... and 18 more
Quote

Reproductive abilities? Ye speak of Armitage.

But yes, that's certainly possible. We've seen that reploids can have feelings for humans and vice versa, like Craft and Neige, or Alouette/Prairie and Giro.


"Why do you care that I care that you care enough to care that I care for caring?" "Conversation isn't your strong point, is it?"
"I worship the supreme comrade Cossack!"
"OugharagarraaahhHHH: When 'Ow' just won't cut it."
ImageImage
Image

CAPCOM: We put the "No" in Innovation.

Spotanjo3
Superstar!
Inactive
421 posts
Quote

Rockman's creator says Roll is Rock's sister, yes! I rest my case.