I have been thinking about the idea of free will for some time and I can\'t really decide if there is one. I have come up with some rather interesting or strange theories.

First, lets look at free will in the normal way. Most of you take it for granted that once you decide to do something, you do it out of your own free will. Some people beleeve in faith wich says that everyting is pre told and we all follow a pattern layed out from the beginning of time.

Now lets say you decided to trow a stone in a pond. Some might say you did it by yourself, but even if there is no such thing as a pre told pattern, think of why you would throw the stone.
Someone you know might have said to you that it brings good luck to do so becouse someone else told them. In the end you decide to throw becouse of someone elses actions. This leads me to my point. In my oppinion, there is no free will OR faith. Think about it, all your actions are affected by someone elses actions wich means that it will happen no matter what you do. An example:

You see this topic, read the text and make up an oppinion. Some will think this is something worth discussing and posts, but some think this is stupid and clicks away. Why did they do that? Someone might have told them this kind of thing is just humbug and they therefore have a negative atitude towards this kind of topic.

Ok, now let\'s bring God into the picture (may I remind you I am not religius).

Some claim it is God that controlls us all and it therefore explains faith. However it is allso said that God gave man free will.
But this means free will will still be limited by the pattern and the affect of other\'s actions.

From what I can see, the only way to make the universe\'s pattern different is for it to start in a different way.

Ok, you may post whatever oppinion you have about this, but like I said, it is just a theory...

The actions of others around you shape your mind.
Your mind is then what it is, no one will have the same unless they where in the exact same spot same time and same mind before everything happened.
That does not determine what you do, it will shape how your mind goes about deciding what to do.
Tis my opinion.

So, unless I\'m interpereting this wrong, you\'re saying that there is no true free will and that humans are destined to be ultimately governed by their surroundings.

It is technicly your will because your mind chooses to do it.
So really free free will and controled will are the same in this sence, however if you did it against your wishes this would not be free will.

To SZX: My post wasn\'t definative on if it exists, to me it does but it is my mind that is telling me to say that and it is also telling me to say this and the way I think didn\'t form on its own -so- in that perspective I may not have free will.

[Edited on 5-3-2004 by Victor:.]

I don\'t believe in fate, it\'s a excuse made up by humanity. Death is the only thing fated, everything else is your own will. It\'s true that whatever eviroment you grew up in might affect how you think, but it doesn\'t make choices for you. Like if you grew up in a racist household and wound up commiting a hate crime, there was nothing forcing you to do it. Others can only make suggestions, but in the end it\'s your own choice.

I switch how I think about this subject a lot. Sometimes I\'ll think that we don\'t have a choice and other times that we are responsible for our actions.

I don\'t remember who told me this or where I heard it from but the universe follows a never-ending cycle of death and rebirth. What has happened before and will happen again. Eventually, when our planet is long gone and the universe has completed its cycle and compresses back into its original state of a tiny, tiny \'thing\', it will begin the cycle again and there will be a new earth and in that time people will wonder the exact same thing that we have and they might even be us in all respects. How many times have I posted this exact message before, yet in a different frame of existence? I dunno. Maybe never. But that\'s the thought I sometimes carry.

The other thought I have is that yes, we choose our own paths (I choose you, Pikachu! ). So what if we do choose to do what we do. What do we do then?

:conf:

We accept the fact that we can suck at making choices and stop blaming God, the universe or Jebus or whoever you think is to blame and take responsibility.

I\'m sure there are other ways of thinking about this but these are the ones I follow.

Post redacted

there is no real free will,the things we do may not please or may please god,but there is no free will.think of peter,he was told by Jesus that he wolud deny he even knew Jesus 3 times,and that is exactly what he did.he probably didn\'t even know he was doing it,just trying to save his hide,and besides,when God says something will happen it WILL happen,and all those who didn\'t come to Christ will be VERY sorry when they come true(like the rapture and end of this world)

Snakeman.Exe, allow me to join in.

People believe that free will is one\'s ability to exercise actions that are entirely within their own power, and entirely decided by themselves and only themselves.

Free Will is choice. In reality, we don\'t have choice. We believe that we are choosing something over another, but we only choose one thing. In quantum mechanics, it is believed that for every thing that can happen does happen. Regardless of whether or not this theory is true, you only live one life.

Meaning, no matter what choice is presented to you, you will only make one and only one alone. You will only take one path through life. Why would it even matter whether or not you\'re doing the trail-guiding?

In truth, I don\'t believe we have free will. Not at all. I believe in the fate theory. I believe that regardless of any choice we make, we do one thing, and that thing is fated to happen. It\'s going to happen, whatever it is, and then, that\'s it. You move on.

As for God (no, I\'m not religious either) ruling things, I believe that you are victim of a misconception. God does not rule us, but rather, he only put us here to exist. (Well...that\'s the conservationalist view anyway).

Anyway, I still like knowing that I\'m in control, but a part of me says I\'m not.

So, I don\'t care. I don\'t care one bit. I won\'t let petty things like that stop me from living out my life in the most happy path that I can find. My advice is to follow that philosophy. Don\'t even think about whether or not you actually chose to pick up that ham sandwich, just know that you did, and leave it at that. That\'s why people die without accomplishing anything...because they waste their time doing nonsense things like pursuing the meaning of life. Honestly :madgo:




Furthermore, about your little ditty about how other people\'s opinions and actions influence our will.

This is partially true. However, ultimately, we are the ones who make the final choice.

The only way to defeat the enemy is to deny it battle.

Don\'t even think about throwing a stone in the water. Think about something else.
Like helping out your friendly neighborhood Kei...by donating any wavs/midis of FLCL soundtracks you can find.

Thanks.;D

ok let yugisgirl try this reply kosmic fool style yugisgirl is neutral on this question she thinks that there is or there isnt depends on wat \"god\" decides now plz give yugisgirl feedback if she did the third person just like kosmic fool

If there\'s a will, there\'s a way.

Woah! things have really happined here while I was gone. Ok back to topic.

Pocket: What you said about the universe restarting reminded me of something I read about multiple universes, where you have an (in theory) unlimited ammounts of you in all sorts of situations, the closer they are linked the more allike their pattern will be. The reason I even mentioned this was, for them to have that same pattern they must decide about the same things, think the same, do the same. This seems very much like a pattern that they would have to follow. Having said that, I dont really beleeve in any of this, I just thought I\'d mention it.

Kei: One thing really came to mind when reading your post. I remember someone telling me that the only contiousness we have is choise. If this is correct you would have free will, but your mind would still be powerfully influanced by most things. The thing is, it has been descovered that the brain makes the coises 0,10 miliseconds before the contius mind has made made the desission, there by removing free will once again unless you beleeve that the real \"you\" is bound to your brain. I wont go any further with this since then the descussion would turn in the direction of \"weather or not we have a soul\"

Anyhow, All that I have written is marely thoughts. In the end we will all go about our buissnes without even thinking about the consept of free will in mind. going after the meaning of life is (in my mind) something without any real mening. And I quote:

Ditto on that. I just wrote a lot of what I heard about God.

I\'m not religious.

However, you really believe that you have choice and that your brain makes those decisions. But how would you know? In essence, there is no such things as free will, or enslaved will, or whatever you want to call it.

you do what you do, and you choose to do it. Why worry about it more?

If there\'s no free will, why do people who do wrong always get punished when caught? Every religion has a punishment for those who\'ve done wrong, and if you aren\'t religous there\'s the justice system. If fate controls everything and there\'s no free will then why do punishments exist for actions? It\'s because you have a free will. There\'s nothing controling your life except you. If you didn\'t have free will and you followed a path chose before your birth then why isn\'t every decision made in a spilt-seconds time? Because it takes your mind time to think of what YOU want to do, not some cosmic force that deceides your fate. The idea of fate is a illusion of the human mind. When something bad happens you don\'t want to accept it\'s your fault, that\'s what fate is, the idea that nothing that happens is truly your fault, you were just taking orders from destiny.

If anyone\'s offended, I\'m sorry but that\'s just my veiw.